Skeeter's Flipper Moment (talking with a current JW)

by skeeter1 3 Replies latest jw friends

  • skeeter1

    I had a “Flipper Moment” (i.e. actually speaking with a current, non-baptised JW). Usually, I avoid talking about the Organization with JWs, and this one person in particular… but it was just perfect. Because I was talking face to face, there was no blow-ups. We didn’t fight. Everyone was listening around us as almost all the people present know the JWs are a cult.

    We were at a dinner party and the subject of pyramids came up and whether they were built by aliens. The JW faked interest, but I knew what was going on in the mind…..”Oh, aliens are just demons who helped man build these things.…”

    So, I mentioned that the Watch Tower founder’s gravestone is a pyramid, financed by close Bible students after his death. I mentioned that an older JW we both knew confirmed this. The JW response was typical brainwashing, “The light gets brighter and brighter.” In other words, the old Truth is not the new Truth. To which I responded that that is verse out of Proverbs, it has nothing to do with the prophecy chapters of Daniel or Revelations.

    Then the JW calmly said, “I believe the Society has the Truth. We are living in the Last Days.” I agreed that that is what the WT teaches, said it was an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists, and that the End has been predicted throughout the ages, back from the time of Christ. But, the 7 th Day Adventists and their breakoffs were date fixated, including the Branch Davidians and JWs.

    We agreed that you can’t live your current life as if the End was going to come in the next moment. I guess that’s a small breakthrough.

    I then went into the Generation teaching. I said that this teaching had been changed about 5 or 6 times. I said that the End was predicted many times by the WTS (to which I go the “They didn’t predict, they said it was likely….more brainwashing of changing followers expectations after a failed prediction.”). I went over the current Overlapping teaching to show how different it is today. I explained the Overlapping theory (a man born in 1914 is going to meet of a baby and the End will occur during that baby's lifetime). The JW looked like a deer in the headlights. I doubt the JW realized the teaching change. This person goes about once a month to any meeting and never in service.

    Then, I said that if one disagreed with the current Society teachings or light, perhaps believing a New, New Light or Running Ahead, they would face disfellowshipping and lose all friend and family. So, here’s the whopper! The JW said, “if you speak against Jehovah…” To which I stopped and said, “No, it’s if you speak against Jehovah’s Organization’s current light….. your family will not talk to you.” So, at that point, I was reminded that my family still speaks with me. I qualified that it’s only because I was NEVER baptized. If I was baptized, it would be a whole different ballgame. I reminded the JW that another close friend of ours stopped studying because the baptism question required allegiance to Jehovah’s Organization. I said that that was there for legal reasons. Perhaps another small breakthrough as the JW said, “Well, I’m not baptized.”

    Then, I got into the disfellowshipping and breaking apart of families to be one factor that leads people to believe it is a cult. The JW said, “I’m not brainwashed. Everything is from the Bible.” I said, “You don’t study the Bible, you study WT literature. Anyone can make the Bible say anything.” I then said that exiting JWs and cult psychologists think that it’s a cult, but those who are “in” don’t think it’s a cult. I had shown this person the BITE model in the past, and said, “The Watchtower follows the BIT E model of control.”

    Then, I turned the conversation to Heaven’s Gate, where the leader ordered all males to be castrated. The JW said, “We’re not a cult as we don’t do that. That’s crazy.” I said, “Yes, cults usually have a belief that will end up with the person dying.” (hinting of the blood issue that I’m sure came across as this is what really got me away from the JWs for good).

    Then, somewhere in all of this we got onto Jehovah verses Jesus. To which I commented about how Jehovah killed many people and caused so many wars. The JW said it was to protect His people.

    What the F*ck? I should have nailed it here, but I let it pass. All knowing and omnipotent Jehovah had to start wars to protect His people? Why didn’t he use an Earthquake or Tornado to wipe out the bad people?

    Then, I talked about Jesus and Buddha, and all the similarities. This is where the JW must now think I’m a total coo-coo head. I got the “They believe in monkey gods, reincarnation…that’s not the Truth.” So, then I want through some of the striking similarities between Jesus and Buddha’s life. Then, I addressed the monkey gods as being an infiltration of Hindu and not directly from Buddha’s enlightenment.

    At this point, the JW must have been saying, “Skeeter’s gone coo-coo!” So, the JW says, “Well, I believe the JWs have the Truth” (again). To which I said that the JWs are a sect of Christianity. To which I got the “Jesus said that path would be narrow.”

    I pointed to an object and said, “That object is real. It exists. What we don’t know, we don’t know. No one can say for certain what exactly happens in the next life. I don’t call the JWs belief of the afterlife any more crazy then a monkey god. We are all guessing.” To which the JW agreed that there was a difference between reality and belief!!!! The JW actually said the word belief!!!!! To which I said that our beliefs are what help some people make it through the day. But, we have to recognize tha we are all on a spiritual journey. If you become a JW and later ‘move on’, you lose your friends and family. The JWs are not conducive to people leaving. There is no Freedom of Religion.” The JW just nodded. I then said that many people who are inside the Truth are also outside on apostate boards becuase they can't formally leae the Oganization or their spouses would divorce them,they'd lose friends and family, etc." To which the JW said, "Many people are stuck inside marraiges." I gave the "WTF look". And I closed it with that I don’t need an Organization to make me a good person. To which I got the canned response, “Jehovah’s Organization is full of good people all meaning to do the right thing. There are some bad people in it.”

    At this point, I was tired. I wish I had said, “It’s like a bad parent that lets the kids run wild and then covers up for it (pedophiles, wife abuse, changing doctrines, etc.)

    Anyway, I made a bunch of points. But, I don’t know if I made a difference.

  • Quotes

    To which I got the canned response, “Jehovah’s Organization is full of good people all meaning to do the right thing. There are some bad people in it.”

    Sounds like that defense, if valid, could be used for absolutley every religion on the planet.


  • N.drew

    Anyway, that is some good sharing Sheeter. Someday I might like to see the WTF look.

  • mrmusicmr

    It might worth u a look.

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