"The dead no nothing"

by paulo1963 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • paulo1963
  • Ding

    Are you quoting Ecclesiastes 9:5?

    Interestingly, the WT always quotes part of that verse, "the dead are conscious of nothing at all..." (NWT), but they don't believe the rest of that verse or verse 6:

    "... neither do they any more have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion any more to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."

  • paulo1963
  • GLTirebiter

    It looks like IE9 is doing nothing for you (but that doesn't mean it's dead). Many folks have trouble posting with IE9. Try using its "compatibility mode", or a different browser such as Firefox.

  • NeonMadman

    Maybe Paulo is just trying to illustrate what the dead know, according to the JW application of Ecclesiastes 9:5.

  • dm6

    funny you mention this Ding because thats what i always said. And when i put it to my bible teacher he says, oh, ill have to look into that one.

    That old chestnut.

  • paulo1963

    Ok. I shall try again :-)

    If the dead know nothing how come Moses appeared and spoke at Christs trasfiguration?

  • TheyCantDoATing Man
    TheyCantDoATing Man

    The CrapTower loves quoting from Ecclesiastes! And many Christians hate the book, because on the surface it presents problems.

    Ecclesiastes is found in the more poetic section of Scripture, near Proverbs and Psalms. It is a philosophical book presenting two opposing ideas; one of a belief in God and the other a more superficial approach to life. A few scholars believe it to be a record of two people debating, but the general feeling is that these are the words of just one person - in verse one it states '..the words of the teacher..:'

    It is a book of debate, perhaps the debate which at some time or another has engulfed every one of us. What is the meaning of life? Is there are point to it all, or is everything meaningless?

    The humanist in Ecclesiastes believes everything is meaningless (1:2) nobody remembers the dead (1:11), knowledge and wisdom are useless (1:18), laughter is foolish (2:2),God doesn't allow men to enjoy themselves (6:2) and a stillborn child is better off than the living (6:3), sorrow is better than laughter (7:3), man knows nothing about the future and nobody can tell him about it (8:7), money is the answer for everything (10:19).

    Try using some of those verses to a JW who comes at you with the ol' 9:5 treatment. Chapter 12 verse 7 states quite clearly "The spirit returns to God who gave it". This is yet another example of the WT quoting verses out of context. Ecclesiastes is purposely full of contradictions and makes perfect sense once the entire book is read on it's own, within its own context, and not with some cooked up chicken shit square pegs in round holes theory.

  • PSacramento

    The hebrew "understanding" of Death progressed as they were revealed more about it from God via the prophets.

    It started to people die and that's it, to people die and the spirit goes to God, to people die and go to sheol and so forth and so on, cumulating on the belief of a bodily resurrection at the end of time.

    The reason Moses and Elijah came to visit Jesus on the mountain depends on what belief the Jew reading that account subscribed to at the time.

    It was their spirit that John, James and Peter saw and heard.

Share this