The Ring of Truth

by Perry 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • Perry
    Perry

    While I was a sociology major I was busy putting together many things from the great thinkers of the world, Weber, Marx, Kierkegard etc., so that I would be able to intelligently debunk each view. I read the following piece on H2O and had a very provacative discusion with my professors on the subject. It was this peice of work that freed me permantly from the WT and put me in the control seat of my own life.

    I lost the paper a couple years ago and Randy Watters was kind enought to post it. I hope no one minds that I re-post it as a separate thread. It is a very good read with practical implications in full harmony with sociological principles. Very few views will have the support of athiests, Humanists, and Christians. I believe this piece to come close if not succeed.

    For those of you who haven't read it...enjoy.

    Imprisoned Ideas

    by W. P. Brown, MP

    A member of the British Parliament outlines the dangers of becoming a slave of institutions or organizations

    There are many classifications into which men and women may be divided -- as upper, middle or lower class; rich, well-to-do and poor; religious, skeptical and theist; Conservative, Liberal, Labor, Catholic, Protestant, master and man; and so forth and so on, ad infinitum. But, as I think, the only categorization which really matters is that which divides men as between the Servants of the Spirit and slaves of the organization. That classification, which cuts right across all the other classifications, is indeed the fundamental one. The idea, the inspiration, originates in the internal world, the world of the spirit. But, just as the human spirit must incarnate in a body, so must the idea incarnate in an organization. Whether the organization be political, religious, or social is immaterial to my present argument. The point is that, the idea having embodied itself in an organization, the organization then proceeds gradually to slay the idea which gave it birth.

    We may see this process at work in many fields. Let us take one or two by way of illustration. In the field of religion, a prophet, an inspired man, will see a vision of truth. He expresses that vision as best he may in words. He will not say all he saw. For every expression of truth is a limitation of it. But he will, so to speak, express the sense of his vision. What he says is only partly understood by those who hear him; and when they repeat what they understand him to have meant there will already be a considerable departure from the original vision of the prophet. Upon what his disciples understand of the prophet's message, an organization, a church will be built. The half-understood message will crystalize into a creed. Before long, the principal concern of the church will be to sustain itself as an organization. To this end, any departure from the creed must be controverted and, if necessary, suppressed as heresy. In a few score or a few hundred years what was conceived as a vehicle of a new and higher truth has become a prison for the souls of men. And men are murdering each other for the love of God. The thing has become its opposite.

    In the field of politics, the dispossessed dream of social order which shall be based on righteousness, a system in which men shall not exploit their fellowmen, in which each shall contribute according to his capacity and each shall receive according to his need. Upon this conception a political party is built. It gives battle, over the years to the existing order of things. As with the church, it is not long before the primary concern of the party is to sustain itself. Here again, any departure from the political creed must be repressed. The "party line" must be kept straight and dissent kept under. In the course of time, the party achieves power. By this time, it is no longer led by starry-eyed idealists, but by extremely tough guys -- who then proceed to use their newly acquired power to establish a stronger despotism than the one they overthrew, and to sew up all the holes in it that they themselves discovered in the old. What emerges is not freedom and social justice, but a more comprehensive and totalitarian control, used to maintain a new privileged class, which, because of the earlier experience of its members, is still more ruthless than the old.

    Similar illustrations could be drawn from all fields of life. But these two will suffice to demonstrate the truth with which I am here concerned. It is that, the idea having given birth to the organization, the organization develops a self-interest which has no connection with and becomes inimical to, the idea with which it began. Now, the thing which permits this process of diversion to take place, so that the organization comes to stand for the opposite of the idea which originally inspired it, is the tendency in men and women to become Prisoners of the Organization, instead of being Servants of the Spirit. In this tendency there are many elements. There is a sense in which you cannot run an organization without becoming its prisoner. Organization has its own necessities, in the interests of which the original idea has to be somewhat qualified. As soon as the idea passes from the unmanifested and embodies itself in the actual, it begins to be invaded by what the poet called "the
    world's slow stain." In this, there need be no conscious infidelity on the part of the leaders. Better, they may well argue, that the great idea should be only partly manifested than that it should remain a mere idea in vacuo. Better half the ideal loaf than no bread at all.

    Next, the wider the area to which the idea is introduced, the larger the circle of men and women to whom it is propagated through the organization, the more it must be "stepped down" for propaganda purposes. The idea which gives birth to a party which wants to establish the cooperative commonwealth, must be translated into practical proposals, such as the eight-hour day, the five-day week, and what not, if it is to attract a mass backing. And so the organization becomes less the vehicle of the idea than a channel through which particular interests must be served. The service of such particular interests attracts the backing of other organized bodies more interested in the limited objectives which the organization has now adopted than in the great idea itself. And the pressure of such bodies is felt by the organization, with the result that the idea tends to retreat into the background in favor of less ambitious objectives. In this world, the Devil walks, and it is necessary sometimes to hold a candle to the Devil.

    Another element is this: Prophets always stand a good chance of being bumped off. This chance is increased if they come down from the hills into the marketplace, and still further increased if they come down unarmed. Prophets should only go unarmed into the marketplace if they think that their work is done, and are prepared to depart hence. Some prophets take to arms. Even where the original prophet does not, his disciples may do so. The Devil must be fought with the Devil's weapons. This is argumentatively sound but practically disastrous. For it means that the servants of God, the disciples of the idea, tend to descend to the Devil's level. As the organization grows, it deteriorates. Its leaders are not the men they were.

    Among the rank and file many things combine to keep them in the organization, even when they become uneasily conscious that there is a dawning, and even a yawning gap between organization and idea. First there is the force of inertia. It is easier not to resign than resign. Drift is easier than decision. Next there is the factor of sentiment. All of us tend to project onto the organization of which we are members, the virtue we would like it to have, and to be blind to its defects. And, finally, men are gregarious creatures and dislike falling out of the ranks away from the comrades of years. Gradually the organization changes. As it changes it attracts new elements which approve the change. Not because of conscious calculation, which comes much later, when the idea has been deserted, but because organization develops its own logic, its own raison d'etre, and because men tend to become the Prisoners of the Organization, the organization can finish up by standing for the precise opposite of the idea which called it into being.

    What is the moral to be drawn from all this?

    One moral, it would not be wholly facetious to suggest, might be that the first rule for an organization should be a rule providing for its dissolution within a limited period of time. "This organization shall be dissolved not later than . . ." But the deeper moral is concerned with our attitude to organization as such. The moral is that, even when we are members of an organization, our attitude to it should be one of partial detachment. We must be above it even when we are members of it. We should join it in the knowledge that there we may have no abiding place. We should be weekly tenants, not long-leaseholders. We should accept no such commitments as would prevent our leaving it when circumstances make this necessary. We should reckon on being in almost perpetual rebellion within it. Above all, we should regard all loyalties to organization as tentative and provisional. The whole concept of "my party, right or wrong," "my union, right or wrong," "my church, right or wrong" should be utterly alien to our thinking. We must be Servants of the Spirit, not Prisoners of the Organization. We must keep in touch with the sources of life, not lose ourselves in its temporary vehicles. And whenever the demands of the Spirit, the categorical imperatives of the soul, conflict with the demands of the organization, it is all contained in one of the legendary sayings of Jesus, which bears all the marks of authenticity:

    This world is a bridge. Ye shall pass over it, but ye shall build no houses upon it.

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Thank you Perry for an interesting post. It's been many years since I wallowed in the words of sociologists who always write in a way that hides their dogmatism in sufficient disclaimers to claim not to be infected by it. I agree that you would find many Christians and especially ex Jdubs, burned by an organization, who would bask in complete agreement with the paper you presented. I find it, however, simplistic and limited, certainly with enough kernals of truth to be tantalizing though.

    Obviously, the author has never experiance an administrative system or beauracy that is an exception to his/her claims, or he/she dishonestly decided not to mention it as it would negate the entire thrust of the argument. Neither are all organizations or religions the snare and racket your author would like us to believe, nor do I find his ideal organization with built in sunset clauses very realistic. An organization can be dynamic, evolutionary and capable of maintaining marvelous flexibility without becoming the destroyer of the "spirit" or elan. In fact, it can be the synergistic creator of and enhancer thereof.

    cheers,

    carmel

  • Perry
    Perry

    Oh, really? As laughable as your asertion is, for the sake of being fair, would you please name the organization that has totally freed itself from the effects of heiarchy?

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Sorry if you consider my assertion as laughable but years ago I investigated the Baha'i Faith in spite of my aversion to "organized religion". That administrative system dissallows many of the problems of heiarchy in that individuals are not elected to serve on adminstrative bodies by "running for election". Their elections are conducted without campaigning or electioneering. Those elected to serve are for a prescribed time period, usually one year, and the criteria for election is clearly not based on the typical standards of "leadership" current in the majority of institutions. Everyone of the elected members I have know are honored to serve but equally willing for someone else to be in their shoes.

    I've observed and participated in the system for over 25 years and find my description of the system to be exactly as I described. It enhances ones connection to the "spirit" empowers the individual to be all they can be yet challenges them to do so in a social milue that combines the individual creativity with collective synergy.

    I generaly avoid any discussion of my faith on this forum, so for those other than Perry reading, my apologies.

    Ball's in your court, Perry.

    Carmel

  • Perry
    Perry
    Obviously, the author has never experiance an administrative system or beauracy that is an exception to his/her claims, or he/she dishonestly decided not to mention it as it would negate the entire thrust of the argument.

    From your statement above you suggest that an organization exists without, or is exempt from, the fundamental dynamics described by Mr. Brown, which may be simplictically described as the dynamics of heirachy diluting the principles and ideas from which it was formed. Then you contradict yourself with the following statement:

    [QUOTE]years ago I investigated the Baha'i Faith in spite of my aversion to "organized religion". That administrative system dissallows many of the problems of heiarchy in that individuals are not elected to serve on adminstrative bodies by "running for election". Their elections are conducted without campaigning or electioneering. Those elected to serve are for a prescribed time period, usually one year, and the criteria for election is clearly not based on the typical standards of "leadership" current in the majority of institutions.[QUOTE/]

    The very fact that this particular organization adheres to so many procedural customs common to its association, is evidence that its leaders are well aware of group dynamics and have taken steps to try and mitigate the cylical nature of heirachal despotism. Your "evidence" seems to support Mr. Browns view and mine as well.

    Further, if you are asserting that with these limits, which by all indications appear to be a consequence of heiarcy, and not a result thereof, a complete and comprehensive equality has emerged among all group members, then it would be a first of its kind and should inspire prompt scholarly study especially from the decendants of the likes of B.F. Skinner and company. Since this has never been observed in the history of mankind, I do find it laughable that someone other than a cultic religionist would make such a claim.

    If on the other hand you are suggesting that simple steps can be enacted to provide a mitigating matrix to sift the more pervasive of the psuedo persona of heiarchy, then you are in complete agreement with Brown who says:

    [QUOTE]But the deeper moral is concerned with our attitude to organization as such....We must keep in touch with the sources of life, not lose ourselves in its temporary vehicles.[QUOTE/]

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Perry,

    That is exactly what I am asserting. An organization does exist that is not built on the egotism like that of contemporary politics, which includes most eclesiastical organizations. Viewed from Mr. Brown's perspective, the heirarchy, is not allowed to dilute the spirit because its primary function is to empower individuals, whether elected members or not to expand their natal capacity, to allow maximum diversity of thought, opportunity to express that diversity in a manner that builds consensus and unity, rather than uniformity(hence enhancing the "spirit").

    That you read a contradiction into my reference is an unfortunate and, I believe incorrect conclusion.

    Perhaps my opening comments about sociologists was a bit strong. After completing my minor in soc. I moved on to other fields that I found I could find more exact. If that offends you, my apology! I've just never enjoyed reading soc. texts and shouldn't be so quick to lamblast their efforts.

    I guess, in conclusion, I find Dr. Brown could be palatable for the most part, except I find his paper to be much like the typical Exjw, who condems all religion because of his/her experiance and brainwashing by the FDS while having never actually gone out and experianced ALL religion.

    cheers,

    carmel

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    I know of a FEW religions that have no heirarchy and give a lot of freedom.

    SS

  • Perry
    Perry

    Saint Satan,

    At the risk of having the somewhat unique experience of entertaining more than one moronic and indefensible idea at a time, and without troubling you to enumerate the multible religions you claim have, "no heirarchy"; would you kindy submit to this DB the name of only one religion or group (over 10 members) which exists as you claim?

    While you search for evidence, and I trust it won't take long given the bold assertion of 'knowing', I will concern the rest of the comments here to the touted utopian character of the Baha'i Faith that is being prostylized by Carmel, because he has so graciously ammended his usual self-imposed silence, in order to help all us to avoid dogmatism and have a better understanding of truth and reality.

    Thank you Perry for an interesting post. It's been many years since I wallowed in the words of sociologists who always write in a way that hides their dogmatism in sufficient disclaimers to claim not to be infected by it.

    I found it somewhat amusing in a infantile sort of way, that after throwing the first stone of 'dogmatism' you were immediately compelled to admit below, that it was your statements that were dogmatic by making such a bold, absolutist claim without providing a single shred of evidence.

    Perhaps my opening comments about sociologists was a bit strong. After completing my minor in soc. I moved on to other fields that I found I could find more exact. If that offends you, my apology!
    You have not offended me at all. I enjoy your comments and observations. I myself was moved to proceed beyond sociology and engage other pursits that netted greated personal satisfaction. If the "fields more exact" that you are talking about are your faith, then I'm afraid your sociology minor was a waste of time and perhaps you should consider seeking a refund on the good money you spent in that "dogmatic" study.

    Perry,

    That is exactly what I am asserting. An organization does exist that is not built on the egotism like that of contemporary politics, which includes most eclesiastical organizations. Viewed from Mr. Brown's perspective, the heirarchy, is not allowed to dilute the spirit because its primary function is to empower individuals,

    The fact that your statements contridict themselves, with such dizzying speed in the time honored tradition of mental masturbation encapsulated in the creeds, "religion is a snare and a racket but ours is different because we're not a religion"; "we don't have a clergy class but be obedient to the Elders"; and the Grand Daddy of self-abuse - "We're not a prophet although we are the sole channel of communication of God on earth, tempts me to simply abandon this line of reasoning as just another vain attempt to reconcile fanatism with fact. However, for the sake of viewership of those recently learning to think for themselves, I'll pursue your latest claim.

    not built on the egotism
    Consider:

    Freedom of expression within the Bahá'í Faith:
    Although Bahá'ís have been very active in the promotion of freedom of expression around the world, there are significant restrictions on freedoms of individual Baha'i members. These are enforced through shunning or expelling non-conforming adherents.

    Are you suggesting that those who may disagree with church leadership are merely egotistical and without valid concerns? Certainly that is exactly what the WTS has claimed, loudy proclaiming that those who conscientiously object are merely "proud". To assert that an association is free of heirachy and its progeny - egotism, because the egotistical or proud ones are simply discarded thereby keeping the ideological vacuum pure is strictly a fiction, and a dereliction of your stated result of the association - "to allow maximum diversity of thought".

    Consider a few more of your claims:

    opportunity to express that diversity in a manner that builds consensus and unity, rather than uniformity(hence enhancing the "spirit").
    "in a manner" - and whom may I ask decides which is the correct "manner" to produce this unity as opposed to uniformity?

    heterosexual Baha'i couples who were married in a non-Baha'i ceremony have had their rights removed.
    The Bahá'í authorities have imposed pre-publication censorship on all material written by members about the Faith.....
    The "Talisman" mailing list was closed down in 1996-MAY, after several of its prominent academic posters were investigated at the orders of the Baha'i World Center in Haifa, Israel. Several, including the list owner, were allegedly threatened with being shunned ....
    Michael McKenny, a Canadian fantasy writer was expelled from the church because of his views expressed in Emails.
    And of course the fact that break away sects have formed does nothing to support your argument.

    The Bahá'í Faith itself has experienced a number of schisms.

    The founder of the Bahá'í Faith, Baha'u'llah, selected Abdu'l-Baha to interpret the Baha'i writings after his death. Some members refused to accept the authority of the new leader. After the death of Abdu'l-Baha, the authority passed to Shoghi Effendi, "the infallible Center of the Baha'i faith," the "Center of the Cause," the generally accepted sole interpreter of the Baha'i teachings. Again, some members refused to accept his authority. After his unexpected death in 1957, controversy developed over his successor. One webmaster 4 states that there are now 7 faith groups in the world who claim to be the "true" Bahá'í Faith. Of the six new groups, five were created shortly after the death of Shoghi Effendi, The sixth broke off later:

    I think that it is safe to say that your example of hiearchy free association that fosters a so-called utopian freedom of thought that produces such wonderful unity is nothing more than propaganda for the uninformed and a pitiful attempt to mis-characterize themselves.

    I've observed and participated in the system for over 25 years and find my description of the system to be exactly as I described. It enhances ones connection to the "spirit" empowers the individual to be all they can be yet challenges them to do so in a social milue that combines the individual creativity with collective synergy.
    If you choose to associate yourself with this group, and find sone benefit to your personal effectiveness as a human being, that is well and fine. But to assert the unprovable and tout the unattainable, simply indicates that you have been taken captive by the demagogy of yet another dishonest belief structure, although the beliefs themselves may have great value.

    The facts about this organization you have presented for scrutiny attests to the usefulness of Mr. Brown's view and not to the ridiculous, dogmatic, mind numbing views you previously espoused.

    Material on freedom of expression within the Bahá'í Faith is available at: http://bahai-library.org/newspapers/gnosis.talisman.html and http://bahai-library.org/newspapers/chafe.html An official response from the US National Spiritual Assembly to the latter item is available at: http://bahai-library.org/nsa/attacks.html
    Paul Johnson authored an article on the Talisman discussion group in 1997-Winter edition of Gnosis Magazine.
    "Islam and the Baha'i Faith" is a Web site by an individual member of the Baha'i Faith. It promotes "a better understanding of the relationship between the Baha'i Faith and Islam, and to dispel some of the misconceptions which may have led to feelings of mistrust and suspicion." See: http://bci.org/islam-bahai/
    The Gay Bahai webmaster describes his site as: "The only Gay Baha'i web site. Here Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual and Transgendered Baha'is can chat and know that they are not alone." See: http://www.gaybahai.homestead.com/
    "The Bahá'í Community of Canada welcomes you," at: http://www.ca.bahai.org/
    "Human Rights," Bahá'í Community of Canada, at: http://www.ca.bahai.org/english/rights.cfm
    "Welcome to the Bahá'í Faith," maintained by The Bahá’ís of the United States, at: http://www.us.bahai.org/
    * These are schismatic splinter groups which have broken away from the main Bahá'í faith; they are termed "Covenant-Breakers" by the Bahá'í World Faith.

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