Where did God live before he created the heavens?

by DT 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • DT
    DT

    I used to assume that that the heavens mentioned in Genesis 1:1 are just the universe. However, I have learned since then that the Bible refers to at least three different heavens. (For example, Paul speaks of a third heaven.) According to some scholars, the first heaven is the earth's atmosphere, the second is outer space and the third is where God and the angels lives. Since Genesis 1:1 says that God created "the heavens" it would seem to include all of them. This raises the question of where God lived before he created his own heavenly home. Most believers think that God is eternal, otherwise they would be left with the question of who created God. I guess it's not strictly necessary that the heavenly home of God is eternal. He could have been homeless for an infinite amount of time before he started creating things. He could have had an old heaven where he lived before deciding to upgrade. Maybe he thought that his new son and the other angels wouldn't like the old heaven he had been hanging out in for an eternity.

    Another possibility is that the heavenly home of God coexisted with him for an eternity. In this case, it would seem that Genesis 1:1 is either poorly worded or just plain wrong. Perhaps it should have been worded as, "In the beginning God created two out of three of the heavens and the earth." Otherwise, a footnote might have been useful to make the precise meaning clear without altering the Bible's great opening line.

    Even if Genesis 1:1 only refers to two out of three of the heavens, there are still questions that arise. According to scientific evidence, the formation of the universe (second heaven) and the formation of the earth's atmosphere (first heaven) happened billions of years apart. It is rather odd to group both events together in "the beginning". Of course some believe that both events happened about the same time in the recent past, but it is becoming more common for believers to try to harmonize the Bible's account with the scientific evidence for an ancient universe.

    Could Genesis 1:1 refer to more than three heavens? Suppose a heaven just refers to the universe and multiple heavens refers to multiple universes within the multiverse. This would be consistent with certain modern scientific theories. It also helps to resolve certain difficult philosophical problems. For example, it is troublesome to assume the the universe had a definite beginning while the creator had no beginning. This would mean that the creator spent literally an infinite amount of time before creating the universe. He wouldn't be the grand creator so much as the grand procrastinator. It is impossible for us humans to comprehend a poor work ethic on this scale.

    He could have made other universes before this one, this makes him seem a little less lazy, but as long as the number of universes is finite, there would still be a first one and an infinite amount of time before that where he just wasn't that motivated. In such a case, he might not be very emotionally attached to this one specific universe. He might intend to do something to make life better here, but he might be procrastinating and this could mean a very long wait.

    An endlessly procrastinating creator isn't the only possibility. If an eternal creator had created an infinite number of universes, then it wouldn't imply a single, infinitely long period of procrastination. He could just space them out in a schedule that is comfortable for him.

    This has some interesting implications. Such a creator wouldn't have to give much thought to the basic parameters of the universes. He could just shuffle them randomly with the assurance that some would be suitable for the development of life (if he even cared whether the universes were hospitable or not).

    Such a creator could be intelligent, but wouldn't have to be. He could be just a physical process that allows for the formation of an unlimited number of universes. It makes little difference how well tuned the parameters have to be to support life or how rare the development of life is in such a well tuned universe. Given an unlimited supply of experiments, the development of life would be inevitable.

    Some scientists point out that that certain mathematical theories indicate that the formation of unlimited universes may be possible. I don't understand most of the mathematics, but I welcome your comments on this.

    So what do you think? Is Genesis 1:1 literally true? Is it partially true? If so, in what sense does it correspond to reality?

  • designs
    designs

    IF YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE IS WHERE, JUST SAY'IN

  • bigmac
    bigmac

    why couldnt the almighty god not have made it all in a single day--just one click of his great fat invisible fingers--& job done.

    makes perfect sense to me.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    He rented a hotel room.

    S

  • d
    d

    Better question is who Created God? since everything including God has a creator that will make your head spin

  • Terry
    Terry

    Nothing does not, of course, "exist".

    God is said to have created EVERYTHNG out of----what? This: nothing.

    This is using words but not creating meaning.

    For God to be a CREATOR implies everything about to be created was....up to that point....non-existent.

    The conscious mind of God contained what?

    A consciousness conscious of nothing but itself is a contradiction in terms: before it could identify itself as consciousness, it had to be conscious of something.

    If that which you claim to perceive does not exist, what you possess is not consciousness.

    All of the above means what?

    Any statements about God, Heaven, creation, etc. can only come out of a mind detached from reason, reality and non-contradiction.

    The choice is yours.

  • charlie brown jr.
    charlie brown jr.

    Oh I thought that said Heaven

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    The poster above me beat me to it. It is so obvious he lived in an RV, hopping from pregalaxy to pregalaxy.

    Visit a planetarium where they describe the universe and show distant galaxies and tell me whether you think God is a physical creature some place.

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