Anybody have a Thursday meeting and want to comment on the book study?

by WontLeave 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • WontLeave

    My wife threatened to leave/kill me if I did it, but maybe yours has a better sense of humor. In case you were around for the big Nisan 14/15 debate, you might know I assert the Bible absolutely and thoroughly demonstrates the Passover falls on Nisan 15 and Nisan 14 was the "preparation day".

    Tonight, at the book study, the daily sacrifice that was to be done twice a day at the temple was mentioned.

    Prayers were offered at the temple in conjunction with the morning and evening sacrifices. The evening sacrifice was held at “the ninth hour,” or about three in the afternoon. - bt p28 (footnote)

    This is the sacrifice:

    And you will offer the one young ram in the morning, and you will offer the other young ram between the two evenings. - Exo 29:39

    Notice "between the two evenings" is identified correctly as "about three in the afternoon", which agrees with:

    The time "between the two evenings" ("ben ha-'arbayim") was construed to mean "after noon and until nightfall," - Jewish Encyclopedia

    On the other hand, when JWs talk about Passover, they insist:

    the weight of evidence points to the application of the expression “between the two evenings” to the time between sunset and dark. - it-2 p581, under "Passover"

    The understanding of the book “Bearing Thorough Witness” About God’s Kingdom accurately explains "between the two evenings" as being afternoon, placing the Passover celebration squarely on 15 Nisan, not 14. To bolster their error, in typical JW fashion, they manage to dig up an "expert" who will back their idiocy and dogmatism. Jews know Passover is prepared on 14 Nisan and eaten on 15 Nisan and celebrate it that way to this day. JWs just have to pick a fight with everybody about everything, so they insist preparation and eating was crammed together immediately at the beginning of 14 Nisan. In reality, Passover was prepared during the waning hours of 14 Nisan and eaten after sundown (the next calendar day for Jews) shortly after the beginning of 15 Nisan. But just like all liars, they've spun a tangled web and their loose ends keep popping out for anyone to see, if they're willing to open their eyes.

  • St George of England
    St George of England

    Went to the meeting last night but of course this was whizzed through without even a mention of the footnote.

    The BS conductor is not exactly a 'Bible Student'!


  • ssn587

    The idiot in me has awoken and am wondering what bt stands for, instead of putting things like that bt etc. why not spell it out so those of us who have minds that go on vacation without body intact will understand.

  • WTWizard

    The witlesses are known for deliberately confusing things. It might be more correct to refer to Nisan 14 as starting at noon. This would solve the problem of what to do about very high latitudes--if you are far enough north, it ls daylight 24 hours a day. Around the south pole, it is dark. You would never have sunset during this period in very high latitudes. Northern Greenland, the islands north of Canada, and the islands in extreme northern Europe and Asia are often light 24 hours a day by Nisan 14, and the mainland of the continents of Europe, Asia, and parts of Canada (also, Barrow, AK) sometimes receive 24 hours of light per day if Nisan 14 is very late. Antarctica has areas that are always permanently dark by Nisan 14.

    If you were to take Nisan 14 as starting at noon, problem solved. It would also solve the problem of what to do when you have too many congregations sharing the Kingdumb Hell. Many places are experiencing late evenings by Nisan 14--even well down into mainland Europe and Canada. If you throw in Daylight Savings Time, "Nisan 14"--Washtowel style--doesn't start until after 7 PM. On those years when Nisan 14 is late April, and you are at 50 o N latitude (London) or higher, and have 3 or 4 congregations sharing the Kingdumb Hell, the REJECT Jesus Parties can be going very late in the evening. By using noon, you can start these wastefests in the middle of the afternoon, perhaps as soon as children are supposed to be home from school. Some places would gain as much as 4 or 5 hours of usable time this way.

  • WontLeave


    bt is “Bearing Thorough Witness” About God’s Kingdom, the current book study rag. I hate that book, because it solely exists to twist Acts into being all about JWs and their bizarre idea of "organization".


    There are many things they could do. The problem with the way JWs do things now isn't the time, it's the day. Jewish days are sundown to sundown. They start the Memorial early on 14 Nisan, when Passover was early on 15 Nisan. If you have the early Memorial, you arrive near the end of 13 Nisan, which is a day nothing happened. They start the thing 24 hours early. The Passover was eaten "that night", so any time between sundown and midnight (can't go past midnight, because that's when the angel of death came around, in Egypt).

    The reasons the parking lot's jammed and everybody's rushing where multiple congregations are sharing a Hall are these:

    They require everybody to be there, even though Jesus didn't invite non-partakers. Scripture is taken out of context; "Keep doing this in remembrance of me" while "take, eat" is rejected as only being for anointed. I'm astounded how they believe they should have it both ways.

    Since JWs consider it their only "holiday" and believe it to be a special occasion for people to whom it doesn't apply, they drag everybody and their dog with them.

    All the ex-JWs, faded, and never-baptized still buy into the brainwashing that the Memorial is mandatory, so they all show up.

    All these things are to get that big number every year. JWs are all about numbers and they love to tout the millions who show up (never to be seen again). Meanwhile, the partakers going up, hours per publisher going down - all the embarassing numbers - are fading out of the publications. Now, only the uber-JWs who feel they have to immerse themselves in every scrap of paper the GB touches see these, because they're in the yearbook. I swear, if the average publisher found a GB member's shopping list, they'd frame it and set up a shrine like Japanese ancestor worship. ...but I digress.

    Add to that the methodical way the emblems are passed around so everybody touches the plate and glass. And JWs complain about other churches and their arbitrary ritualistic ceremony. I think this is just a way to make attenders of other churches feel like we do something "religious".

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Has anyone here done any research as to whether "between the two evenings" might refer to the two periods of sleep humans used to have before the advent of electricity? If the "day" began at 6pm, why couldn't the "ninth hour" be 3am? I'm not asserting, just asking the question.

  • WontLeave

    @Mad Sweeney

    Actually, the "hours" started counting at sunup. The daylight was cut up into 12 estimated segments roughly an hour long. Sundown to sunup was cut up into 4 "watches" about 3 hours long. This makes the first "watch" the earliest part of the Jewish day.

    According to Scripture and the vast majority of Jewish scholarship, "between the evenings" is from the apex of the sun to sundown; so from the time the sun begins its descent to the time it sets.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Is any rationale given for why the calendar "day" began at sundown and the time-count of the day began at sunup?

  • WontLeave

    IIRC, it's because of Genesis, where it says "and there was evening and there was morning".

    As far as the "beginning" of the day, it began with the first watch. Just like in the US, we have 2 12-hour periods, the Jews had 2 ~12-hour periods. Our day starts at midnight, whereas theirs started at sundown. When we wake up in the morning, it's several hours into the day.

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