Rev 17:17 - "God has put it into their hearts" vs Free Will

by just n from bethel 2 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    This is something that has kind of dawned on me recently. I searched this forum to see if anyone else has discussed it and couldn't really find anything about it.

    I'm sure every religion has their explanation - but I can't imagine any being too far off from the JWs. The point of the scripture - from the JWs pov - is that Jehovah menuevers matters by forcing the nations' leaders (or those of the UN - scarlet wild beast) to have a united and simultaneous idea of destroying religions (Babylon the Great). Inevitably, from the WT pov, this means some kind of unified killing spree of individuals and families that are in those religions.

    The point being though - is that, for God's will to take place, he has to plant ideas, and program people's minds, to do what he wants - because on their own free will, they wouldn't do it.

    But this is 100% contrary to everything JWs teach (and Christians in general) about God's purpose and free will for humans. If UN human leaders, by their own free will, have no desire to ban "freedom of worship", much less go on a killing spree of all those involved in a religion - doesn't it show at least that these humans are exercising compassion and tolerance on some level, exerting those qualities of God whose image we were made in???

    I mean, if you're God, and you have this option - that is to force people to think a certain way and act a certain way by miraculously planting ideas of your own into human minds and 'hearts' - why not go a more peaceful route? You see, to get the end result for humans that God originally wanted: for everybody to believe and act the exact same way (in this case, like JWs) - what he decides to finally do, is to force some people to think some of His thoughts, programming them to act against their own free will, and suddenly be controlled like robots.

    What I don't understand is, if he's going with this option, of intervening and taking away free will, why make it so destructive? If he has the power to 'put it into their hearts...' why not, put something less destructive in their hearts? Why not put the idea that - 'JWs are right' or 'Mormons are the way to go' or whatever it is that He wants to happen in the end? Why be all like, 'Hmmm, I'm going to pull the strings so that these guys go and kill a bunch of religionists - then I'm going to kill them after that's done'. I mean, if he's finally stepping up behind the scenes to control people's minds and hearts and zap ideas inside of them - what difference does it make, if he zaps nice, peaceful, uniting ideas vs oppressive killing-spree ones? Because once he's broken the free-will parameters he set for himself and humans, doesn't that change the whole game anyway?

    At first it was like, (as JWs teach) 'humans want to rule themselves? fine, lets let this play out so the angelic audience can have it proven that they can't do it. I won't interevene and they can use their free will as they wish' -

    then it's like - 'Well, it seems humanity is working towards ways of showing tolerance of beliefs, and is setting up leaders to help promote that idea. I can't have that - I'm going to have to reprogram these guys, you know stir the pot a bit - force them to think a little less tolerance and a lot more violence.'

    You see, I'm game for being forced to believe whatever supernatural/religious truth may exist out there. I say if God wants me to believe a certain way, then go ahead - zap that into my head and heart. I'm open for it. But it in the meantime, I'm left with these obviously made-up legends from ancient copies of copies of translated copies of middle-eastern texts. Without any agenda, humans have since discovered that these supposed perfect God-sent instructions for humans to base their lives on, are full of contradictions and flat-out impossibilities, along with some pretty disgusting practices that were promoted in the nations that followed these teachings 'in their theocracy ruled land' (stoning disobediant children! rape victims marrying the rapist! WTF, Really? Really?).

    So I say, if God wants to start planting thoughts, start with me - put into my heart this one thought: That John's supposed acid-trip like revelation was from the Universe's Creator and is meant for me to believe its application is for humanity in my lifetime.

    Until that happens, I'll take the occam's razor pov - this was just part of delusions from an old man trying to perpetuate the idea that his new religion would be relevant for a long time. On that, he was right - but it's still nonsense. The end.

  • dmouse

    Its like the tower of babel - humans were doing great without God, and God saw that man could 'accomplish anything'

    So he sabotaged us by confusing the languages.

    Totally unfair, but he's the Almighty so watcha gonna do?

  • ldrnomo

    Man has accomplished a lot more then they ever did at the tower of babel so why doesn't he confuse us all again. After all, isn't man close to finding the key to continuous life?

    What the hell is free will in a religious point of view? Seems to me that Christians, Muslims, Jews, and many other religious followers don't really have free will because they let some man, woman or book tell them what's right and what's wrong.

    God put's nothing into hearts and if it even exists and is hanging out somewhere in the universe I say it is not trying to put anything into anyones hearts. I don't think it cares what we do.

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