Why are they afraid?

by Retrovirus 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Retrovirus

    Hi, i was just reading the

    Flow Chart - How To Have A Rational Discussion

    thread, and my first thought was that the "you cheated" box was too confrontational for someone not used to logic. Then I realised that in all my discussions with my jw ladies, I'd been tiptoeing around my points for fear of scaring them off. And I don't understand why.

    They visit in pairs, bring all their literature which I have to read so that we can talk about it. They will not even look at any of my sources.

    Yet, they have an organisation to support and reinforce them, ongoing "study" and most of all, they believe that they are doing the will, and have the support of, the most powerful being in the universe.

    So why the angst? and is this delicate approach the right way to deal with it?

    Happy 2011 from


  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    They are taught to be afraid.

    The delicate touch is probably the best way to go, if you have the patience to do so.

  • ziddina

    Dang, Retro...

    I see that no one has commented on your thread, yet... I think it's because the subject you've touched upon, has been discussed many, many times before...

    Yet no one has come up with an effective, infallible way to get thru the Watchtower social/mind control.

    There are many on board who would give their eye-teeth - or a fantastic sum of money, if they had it - to get their loved ones out of the Watchtower Society...

    In my experience, a person must leave the Watchtower organization on their own... Usually such actions result from an unpleasant awakening; an injustice that, though observed in the abstract previously, has been experienced personally for the first time...

    There are as many reasons and ways to leave as there are people in the organization.

    I was dragged into the cult by my idiot parents, and I've always looked down on them with contempt for being suckered into that idiocy and beating me into it, too. Between the Watchtower Society and my parents, my potential in life has been severely curtailed, and I will never forgive either my parents or the Watchtower organization for doing that to me...

    I don't have anyone 'in', that I would want to help exit the cult. But I sure wish I had that "effective, infallible"method for getting people out, just to help others here...


  • InterestedOne

    I've only been looking at this org for about 8 months in attempt to understand my JW friend's point of view, so I'm no expert, but I agree that they are taught to be afraid. They are suspicious of what you might say because, as it says in Genesis, the serpent was crafty. If you say something that disagrees with their literature, the more sensible your statements sound, the more afraid they might get because they see it as a trick from the devil. Even though they have all the reinforcement from the org and the creator of the universe, they still have fear that the devil could take advantage of their human weakness and seduce them with doubt. I have no solution for this. One possibility is to wait for the brief moments when they attempt to enter the realm of critical thinking - usually when they try to show you why someone else's doctrine is wrong. Then you have a little moment to show them their own logical problems. It doesn't last long though because they seem to slip back into the cult mentality.

  • Retrovirus

    Thank you for your thoughts, and sorry if I'm rehashing stuff. It's just that when they discuss the Bible or moral standards, they come across as so authorative! Yet this fear is always hovering.

    I try to broaden the discussion, to talk as friends would, about the garden, entertaining, books and movies etc. Yes, I do drag them off topic! At the same time, they ask questions to find out what's bothering me or worrying me; I believe, so they can provide the 'solution".

    So we'll continue the dance.




    Jehovah`s Witness`s don`t come for a discussion..

    They come to Talk At You..Not to you..

    Your supposed to listen and agree..

    They filter everything else out..

    Your not supposed to think..The Watchtower thinks for you..

    People who Think,will Die at Armageddon..

    "WBT$/JW Zombies"..

    "Give their Brain to the Watchtower"..

    .................... ...OUTLAW

  • Retrovirus

    Yes, Outlaw, I do feel the pressure to agree! They do try to manipulate emotions but frankly these two aren't very good at it. You do it much better; your pics are scary!

    Ziddina and BrokenPromises, thanks for your thoughts. I'm trying to understand the mentality, but don't seem to be able to learn fast enough. I am sure that I can't get anyone to leave, I'm more trying to scatter enough clues so that if or when they're ready they have something to go on. Seeing how the WT destroyed my brother's marriage and what their kids went through makes me want to do what I can; however little.

    InterestedOne, thanks for that lead; I'll try to get them onto another doctrine and take it from there.


  • InterestedOne

    Other doctrines are a touchy subject with them. I didn't necessarily mean you should try to get them onto another doctrine. That could get ugly. I just meant that, in their own time, when they bring up their typical criticisms of other doctrines, they at some point appeal to logic. When they do that, let them know you would like to apply logic consistently in future discussions. Let them know you are not attacking them (they have a persecution complex), but that you want to be consistent.

    This is no guarantee though. My JW "study" conductor has agreed to my request to remain logical. However, he is devious about it. He resorts to a lot of splitting hairs and double-meanings of words. It can get frustrating. When he does that, I usually give up and just let him continue. I figure we might as well move along to the next chapter. Like you said, you're scattering clues. They won't admit any flaws in the moment and are very stubborn. Like Outlaw said, they are talking -at- you.

  • cameo-d

    I used to believe that actions could speak louder than words. But alas, JWs are blind as well as deaf. I tried, but after years feel that my actions yielded absolutely no results as JWs are self righteous and no matter how much good you try to do you are still "a worldly" and not worthy to breathe the air, by their standards.

    This leads me to the conclusion that whatever changes a JW makes, it must come from within. Maybe some of these people just have that cold hearted self righteous attitude as an innate character make-up and the WT merely strokes that part of their ego. Yes, it all boils down to EGO. Some people have to believe they are better than others and more special to god. The propaganda concerning "worldlies" put out by WT gives the JWs a certain amount of satisfaction in believing they are exclusive and superior over the majority of people in the world. Their door to door "work" is based on the arrogance of "the pretense of knowing "sacred secrets" that others don't" and the manner of their "witnessing" is condescending. The condescention is evidenced by the fact that, as said above, they do not actually "discuss" anything nor will they look at your materials that cause any questions. They are there only to shove their dogma without regard for your questions or for those who have any real thirst for knowledge.

    I have finally decided that some of these people, if they go against their conscience long enough, become very hardened. If they lack the gumption to stand up for things that they feel in the heart, they will gradually be changed to have no heart and no conscience. Like others who are "turned over to a reprobate mind" because they refused the truth and bought a lie instead.

    It is of their own doing. Sometimes you just have to know you have done all you could and it's time to walk away.

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