Our Father

by Listener 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Listener

    From the Watchtower 2009 2/15 para 20

    The peaceable are happy because “they will be called ‘sons of God.’” Faithful anointed Christians have been adopted by Jehovah and are “sons of God.” They already have an intimate relationship with Jehovah as his children because they exercise faith in Christ and wholeheartedly worship “the God of love and of peace.” (2 Cor. 13:11; John 1:12) What about Jesus’ peaceable “other sheep”? They will have Jesus as their “Eternal Father” during his Millennial Reign, but at its end he will subject himself to Jehovah and they will become children of God in a complete sense.—John 10:16; Isa. 9:6; Rom. 8:21; 1 Cor. 15:27, 28

    What upsets me is the org takes away what are really precious beliefs. They teach that God the spiritual father for the great crowd, only the annointed. Why then do the teach everyone to pray using the Lord's Prayer which begins 'Our father...' It is very deceptive teaching. The same principle applies to Jesus being the mediator for everyone but they teach he is only mediator for the annointed yet everyone who prays must be done with Jesus as mediator. The same principle also applies to the use of brother's and sister's. Only the annointed are spiritual brother's and sister's and the term is used in the congregation only as a demonstration of unity in an earthly organisation.

    The scriptures quoted above do not help to shed any light on this idea, some probably do the opposite.

    I can find no basis for their idea that the great crowd will have Jesus as their eternal father during his Millenial Reign only and what does it even mean? Besides if Jesus was appointed ruler in 1914 then why would the situation be any different to when he rules during the 1,000 years?

    The belief is that the great crowd will reach perfection at the end of the 1,000 years and have a final testing and they say this is when they will become God's children in a complete sense. Yet they provide no information whatsover as to what they mean by a complete sense, this infers that they are children of God in some sense and they confirm that by already saying that he will become their eternal father before this. There is no straight talk but it arouses confusion and makes enquiring minds scratch their heads and give up in frustration.

    Eph 4: 14 in order that we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.

    Is this a form of deceit or trickery or just a manipulation so they can make some sort of logic about the different classes?

  • tec

    I personally think its damage control gone awry.

    At first, all JW's had a heavenly hope, then there were too many, so they divided the hopes and the people, and now they're all messed up because it makes no sense.

    Am I wrong in this understanding of JW history? I'm just going on what I remember having read, and others saying here.


  • Chalam

    Excellent post Listener!

    The scriptures quoted above do not help to shed any light on this idea, some probably do the opposite.

    I have seen the WT quoting scripture which directly contradicts the very doctine they have just proposed on several occasions!

    Clearly JWs are not hearing the message from the scriptures but are only listening to the "voice" of the WT.

    Regarding who the bible clearly states are "sons of God", see these verses

    John 1:12-13 (New International Version, ©2010)

    12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

    NB "to all who receive him"!

    Romans 8:14-17 (New International Version, ©2010)

    14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. [ a ] And by him we cry, “Abba, [ b ] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.


    1. Romans 8:15 The Greek word for adoption to sonship is a term referring to the full legal standing of an adopted male heir in Roman culture; also in verse 23.
    2. Romans 8:15 Aramaic for father
    NB "those who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God"!

    Galatians 3:26-29 (New International Version, ©2010)

    26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    NB "in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith"!

    Galatians 4:1-7 (New International Version, ©2010)

    1 What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2 The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces [ a ] of the world. 4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. [ b ] 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, [ c ] Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.


    1. Galatians 4:3 Or under the basic principles
    2. Galatians 4:5 The Greek word for adoption to sonship is a legal term referring to the full legal standing of an adopted male heir in Roman culture.
    3. Galatians 4:6 Aramaic for Father
    NB, all those who are under the law are slaves. All those who are redeemed from the law are adopted to sonship i.e. are children of God! Not one verse speaks of any middle ground or an intermediary state. Either one is a slave to the law and under God's wrath or redeemed from the law by faith in Jesus Christ and adopted as children of God. Blessings in Christ, Stephen (a Son of God and a co-heir with Christ)
  • designs


    You have snorted Pauline anti-Semitism like a coke addict. Its incredible how ignorant and twisted the NT retelling of Judaism is. Absolutley stunning the ignorance of the Fundamentalist community that sucks it up.

    Wipe your nose and take another hit, you ain't done yet.

    The NT is one of the biggest load of lies, distortions, manipulations and mind control tactics ever fostered on humanity.

    You almost can't blame groups like the Catholics, Protestants, JWs, and Fundamentalists for having such horrible philosophies and dogmas when they started with the NT as their basis.

  • myelaine

    dear designs...

    if people read the jewish canon and get the idea of a strict and severe God...is that wrong?...

    do you think that the orthodox call for the third temple and resumption of sacrifices is invalid because liberal judaism has philosophized its way around the concrete problem of sin and atonement towards God?

    if you have moved so far away from the orthodox why do you feel qualified to expound(?) on the merits of the religion?

    love michelle

  • designs

    Michelle- its very simple. I don't have to be a practicing Jew to know and understand Judaism and that side of my family. What is pertinent to most of these discussions are the claims made by the NT writers who are supposed to base Christianity on Judaism but it is very obvious that they didn't know or in most cases intentionally mislead and lied about Jewish beliefs and practices, Jewish expectations for the afterlife and the lives of ordinary Jews in that era.

    I will expound on the merits and the actual history of Judaism of the era to correct that truly awful portrayal given this Religion by the NT. Do you remember feeling incensed at some of the Watchtower publications you read that misquoted source material and often out right lied, well that is what reading the Nt is like to most educated people.

  • Botzwana

    WHY are the Great Crowd tested TWICE and the 144,000 only tested once?

  • myelaine

    dear designs...

    ...jewish leaders held at least two different thoughts on the after life at the same time...could they have possibly had differing views on other things as well?...you make it sound so cut and dried...


    "I will expound on the merits and the actual history of Judaism ..." sure you will..aren't you the one who refers people to other sources?

    love michelle

  • Ding


    Since the Lord's prayer begins, "Our Father," why does the WTS say any prayer not addressed to God using the name "Jehovah" really goes to Satan?

    They can't cite a single prayer of Jesus where he uses the name "Jehovah."

  • Listener
    Botzwana said WHY are the Great Crowd tested TWICE and the 144,000 only tested once?

    Other than wanting to be fear in the minds of the GC and have them obey their org it doesn't make sense. They go into great detail to explain that the second testing is because man will then have reached a perfect status and it would be in harmony with God's will for a final time at this stage. The anointed are tested whilst they are imperfect human beings.

    I don't recall seeing the claim that JWs must Pray using Jehovah's name in their publications so I'll have to look that up. It does bring to mind the idea of overusing God's name. Would we dare call our own father by his first name? I could just imagine the scolding we would have got and that would be for the indignation of it and the lack of respect displayed.

    To further their idea of the anointed being very special they even dare to say the following

    Watchtower 2008 1/15 para 11

    The Christian Greek Scriptures were written primarily for “the Israel of God,” those anointed as brothers of Christ and spiritual sons of God. Of course, that in no way suggests that non-Israelites could not derive great benefit from studying the Hebrew Scriptures

    For what purpose would they even say that the Greek scriptures were written primarily for the anointed? It was written and carried down through nearly 2,000 years primarily for 144,000 people during this time. Mind control.

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