drunkeness and jw's

by man in black 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • man in black
    man in black

    This afternoon I was just trolling the internet, and I went onto the official jw website just to look around.

    Well, some of the pictures / articles were quite amazing in their sheer ignorance of facts.

    One of the most amazing ones for me, (it actually made me laugh out loud while shaking my head in disbelief) is titled:

    Have you ever wondered . . .

    How should a Christian view drunkenness?

    How should you feel about things that God says are bad?

    (1) What kinds of sexual conduct are wrong?

    (2) How should a Christian view lying?

    (3) gambling? stealing? violence?

    (4) spiritism?

    (5) drunkenness?

    (6) How can a person break free from bad practices?

    When I was a witness ( for 30 years) drinking was the greatest highlight of any social activity outside of the kh. In fact in my old hall, several of the elders had a group that met once a month at a local liquor store, where they sampled different wines/beer/ etc. and usually bought a large supply for themselves. Get togethers ? everyone should drink, drink, drink .

    While my parents were studying the bible back in the mid 70's with the PO, his three sons introduced me to the habit of drinking heavily.

    They-I were in our late teens,,,, so we were underage on top of it !

    So, from what I have seen JWs look at drinking / drunkeness as a two edged sword. Yet if a person disagrees with their religious policy, they can be quickly removed via DFing

    They can overindulge with alcohol, but keep it quiet ! It is even a disfellowshipping offense, see the note below :

    Following is the vast list of offences the Watchtower has created for which a Jehovah?s Witness can be disfellowshipped or disassociated.

    Taken from, http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php#reasons

    • Adultery (sexual intercourse with a person other than your marriage mate), includes;
      • abandoning wife and eloping with another woman - w79 11/15 31-2, w76 p.728
      • planned adultery to break Scriptural marriage ties - w83 3/15 p.29
      • remarriage without Scriptural permission - w56 10/1 p.597
      • polygamy - jv 176
      • dating a person not legally divorced - ks91-E p.135
    • Apostasy - w83 4/1 pp.22-4, km 8/80 pp.1, 4. includes;
      • rebellion against Jehovah?s organization - w63 7/1
      • promoting sects - it-2 886
    • Associating with disfellowshipped people including;
      • friends - ks91-E p.103, w81 9/15 pp.25-6, w55 10/1 p.607
      • family - ks91-E p.103
    • Blood and blood transfusions - w61 1/15 ks91-E p.95, jv p.183-4
    • Drug use - ks91-E p.96
    • Drunkenness - ks91-E p.95, it-1 656
    • Dishonest business practices - w63 7/1, w86 11/15 14
    • Employment violating Christian principles - km 9/76 p.6, km 2/74
    • False worship. Includes;
      • attending another church ks91-E p.94
      • following mourning customs that involve false worship - w85 4/15 p.25
    • Fornication it-1 863
      • bestiality - w83 6/1 p.25
      • incestuous marriage - w78 3/15 p.26
      • artificial insemination and surrogate motherhood.
        • "True Christians, therefore, avoid surrogate motherhood as well as any procedures that involve the use of donated sperm, eggs, or embryos" g04 9/22;?
        • "Artificial insemination of a married woman by a donor other than her husband makes her guilty of adultery" g74 8/8 p.28
      • sexual abuse of children - g93 10/8 p.10Reviling - ks91-E p.94, w96 7/15 pp.17-18; it-1 p.991; it-2 p.802
    • Fraud - ks91-E p.94, om pp.142-3
    • Gambling or related employment - w80 9/1, ks91-E p.136
    • Gluttony - w86 5/1
    • Greediness, this in used to include;
      • gambling ks91-E p.95
      • extortion ks91-E p.95, w89 1/15 22, it-1 p.789
      • greed in relation to bride-price: w98 9/15 p.25
    • Homosexuality - w83 6/1 pp.24-6
    • Idolatry - w52 3/1 p.138
    • Loose conduct - ks91-E pp.93, 96, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 p.574, it-2 p.264, ks91-E p.93, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 pp.574-6, w97 9/1 p.14, it-2 p.246.
      This includes;
      • Sexual perversion
      • Disregard for Jehovah's moral standards
      • Disrespect, disregard or even contempt for standards, laws and authority,
    • Rather than restricted to the usual definition of sexual perversion, the Watchtower defines "loose conduct" as including "disrespect to elders". This enables this term to be used to disfellowship for a wide range of offences not elsewhere covered, and as such is used to cover all manner of sins, such as refusal to cease fellowship with disfellowshipped people, or even being contemptuous in a judicial meeting where no other sin can be proven.
    • Lying - ks91-E p.94, g00 2/8 p.21
    • Non neutral activities (involvement in politics and the military) - ks91-E p.96
    • Military service and non military service including working casual work (certain civilian work has recently been made a conscience matter w96 5/1 p.20) - ks91-E p.96
    • Obscene speech - ks91-E p.95
    • Parents condoning immorality - w56 p.566
    • Political involvement, including voting or holding a political card in Malawi - ks91-E p.96 John 6:15 Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone. (w99 11/1p.28 made this a conscience matter)
    • Porneia. ?It includes oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other, homosexuality, lesbianism, fornication, adultery, incest, and bestiality.? - ks91-E p.93
    • Slander - ks91-E p.94, w63 7/1, w89 10/15 p.14, om p.142
    • Smoking or selling tobacco - km 2/74, ks91-E p.96
    • Spiritism (includes yoga w02 8/1 p.22) - w55 10/1 p.607
    • Stealing, thievery - om pp.142-5, ks91-E p.94
    • Subversive activity - w95 10/1 p.31
    • Uncleanness
      • sexually ?perverse? practices within marriage, such as oral and anal sex - w83 3/15 p.31
      • heavy petting and breast fondling - ks91-E p.92
      • touching of sexual parts - ks91-E p.91
    • Violation of secular law if flagrant attitude - w86 10/1 p.31
    • Violence, extreme physical abuse, fits of anger - ks91-E p.96, w75 p.287, g01 11/8 p.12
      • Includes Boxing w81 7/1 pp.30-1, ks91-E p.142
    • Wilful non support of family, endangerment of mate?s spirituality - w88 11/1 pp.22-3, km 9/73 p.8, ks91-E p.95
    • Worldly celebrations such as Christmas - ks91-E p.95 (It appears celebrating birthdays is not a reason to be disfellowshipped)

  • geevee

    When I was in, my then friends and I used to go away for very drunken weekends. No one fessed up and most became elders etc, with 2 becoming co's. I don't think they ever had their "sin" dealt with, yet they would cut the nuts from anyone who sins!

  • sir82

    I think it's a holdover from Rutherford's days in Bethel. It became part of the culture there.

    And as more and more people visited friends in Bethel, and Bethelites left to get married / find a job, they carried the habit with them. And those in the local congregation thought "hey if it goes on in 'God's house', it must be OK!"

    In JW-land, drunkenness is only a sin if you get caught.

    Ability to hold your liquor and not appear drunk is a prized character trait. If you can do so you'll go far in the organization.

  • FloridaPerry

    If they didn't allow heavy drinking, people's heads would probably explode. When I was a teenager, JW parties where most there got drunk were the norm.

  • badcompany

    Agree. Heavy drinking was the norm. My favorite example is this: Traveling back from a trip to Bethel circa 1974. I was planning on going there to work and went on the tour. On the way back on the plane (100% JW tour plane) they had a raffle for a very expensive bottle of wine. I didn't win (I was 17) but the stewardess announced that it was the first time they had 100% participation in the raffle.

  • zeroday*

    Our PO was a drunk and so was his drunken son/elder. But like everything in JW land it is who you are and who you know...

  • james_woods

    Back when I was an elder, I knew a lot of very drunk JWs - including other elders. + Including at least one Circuit Overseer.

    I never saw a single one disfellowshipped for this, except for one lady who was practically a non-JW and never attended. It was, IMHO, a local committee political play. She was the mother of a very pretty girl who was more popular than some of the elder's daughters. It was easy, because she told them to go to hell when they started in on her, and the father was a non-believer who could have cared less.

  • onemore

    ZERODAY: Our PO was a drunk and so was his drunken son/elder. But like everything in JW land it is who you are and who you know...

    We might have been at the same cong!

    My father (not a JW) was a heavy drinker, one of my uncle die of liver cirrhosis and the other committed suicide by overdosing on Viagra and alcohol (he died on his mistress, to be found dead by his wife… true story).

    Because of the damages that the abuse of alcohol caused in my family, I developed certain respect for it and tried to stay away from it, as I was afraid of following on footsteps of my male role models (they were all cool guys, they just drank a lot).

    So, when I became a Witness, I was surprised (and disappointed) at the way the alcohol is almost worshiped. The alcohol culture is very strong among the JW in my area. They used to make jokes about my selves imposed limits on the amount of alcohol that I would consume.

    Shortly after I became an Elder, I would go through a 30 oz bottle of vodka or cognac in a week. I was turning into a heavy drinker, 6 months after I stepped aside from being an Elder, my consumption went down to a “normal” level (one or two cups a week) and I don’t desire to drink or feel buzz.

  • jookbeard

    countless examples of drinking during my fathers and my era as Dubs, as a kid some of the weddings in the 70's and 80's the booze flowed like water, and the usual local needs talks always followed, my father had a regular Sunday evening in a pub with a lot of elders and MS's those Sunday nights became legendary with many driving for miles to attend, a stag night at an Indian restaurant of a very good friend of my fathers ended up completely out of hand and the abuse the poor Indian waiters endured that night made local folklore, many of the parties I attended in my 20's were nothing short of orgies, a sister on her baptism piss up ended up getting laid that very same night, funny thing thing is all those stories are always met with laughter and back slapping when recounted.

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