Why would john the baptist have associated a dove with the Holy Spirit? That is how would he have known it was the H.S. coming down in the form of a dove. doesn't make sense to me. more like hey that dove is going to crap on him or just land on him momentarily. This strikes me as another myth of the myth book.
Holy Spirit and Doves
by ssn587 7 Replies latest watchtower bible
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tec
He saw the Spirit descending on Him, 'like a dove'. Not in the form of a dove. That's the way my bible reads, anyway.
Tammy
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ssn587
My too, but the inference is that it was a dove, otherwise it makes no sense.
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tec
Flew down, glided down, graceful descent...? Those things make sense to me. I never understood the fascination with the spirit being the dove.
Tammy
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Nathan Natas
Q.: Why would john the baptist have associated a dove with the Holy Spirit?
A.: Because doves are stupid.
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Satanus
The dove was a pagan symbol of isis, an egyptian mother goddess.
S
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Leolaia
There are a number of things. In Genesis 1:2 God's spirit is described with avian language as "fluttering" on the primeval waters. The picture of the Spirit being present at Jesus' baptism may invoke such imagery. There is also the connection between the gospel narratives with Isis-Leto myth, the Apocalypse of Adam, and Revelation, where the agency providing escape is either avian or has avian character.
Mark 1:12-13: "The Spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and he was with the wild beasts and the angels ministered to him" (cf. the Matthean nativity narrative which has the messiah child driven away into Egypt to escape for a mortal threat).
Gospel of the Hebrews, fr. 3: "Even so did my mother, the Holy Spirit, take me by one of my hairs and carry me away on to the great mountain Tabor" (cited by Origen)
Apocalypse of Adam 78:7-12, 19-23, 79:13-18: "He came into existence from a great prophet. And a bird came and took the child that had been born and brought him into a high mountain. And he was nourished by that bird of heaven....He came into existence from a virgin womb. He was cast out of his city along with his mother; he was taken to a desert place, there he nourished himself.... She nourished him within a boundary of the desert. When he had been nourished, he received glory and power from the seed from which he had been engendered. And thus it was that he arrived at the water".
Revelation 12:5-6, 13-14: "Then she bore a son, a male child, who will drive all the nations with an iron crook. But her child was caught up to God and to his throne. The woman then fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared there for her by God....And when the dragon realized that he had been cast to the earth, he pursued the woman who had delivered the male child. Then the woman was provided with the two wings of a large eagle that she might fly to her place in the wilderness where she will be taken care of for a time, times, and half a time from the presence of the serpent".
Hyginus, Fabulae 140: "Python, offspring of Terra, was a huge dragon ... When Python knew that Latona (= Leto) was pregnant by Jove, he followed her to kill her. But by the order of Jove the wind Aquilo (= Latin aquila "eagle", aquilo "north wind") carried Latona away and took her to Neptune. He protected her but in order not to make void Juno's decree, he took her to the island Ortygia".
Herodotus, Historiae 2.156: "The story told by the Egyptians who show why the island moves is this: When Typhon (= Seth) came seeking through the world for the son of Osiris, Leto (= Isis), being one of the eight earliest gods, and dwelling in Buto where this oracle of hers is, received Apollo (= Horus) in charge from Isis and hid him for safety in this island".
Osiris Hymn (18th Dynasty): "Isis the magician avenged her brother (= Osiris). She went about seeking him untiringly. She flew round and round over the earth uttering wailing cries of grief, and she did not alight on the ground until she had found him. She made light from her feathers, she made air to come into being by means of her two wings, and she cried out the death cries for her brother....She suckled the child in solitariness, and none knew where his place was and he grew in strength".
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AGuest
God is a Spirit and so His holy spirit (His life force/breath/blood/semen) cannot be seen with eyes of flesh (may you all have peace!). In order to allow John [the Baptist] to be able to bear witness to the granting by God and receipt by Christ of such spirit... resulting in the "birth" of my Lord in the spirit, which John would have had to SEE in order to so bear witness... the Most Holy One of Israel had to manifest His holy spirit.
That manifestation was the bodily "form" of a dove. It was not a dove... but the spirit appearing in the FORM of a white, flying, fluttering light... which is reminiscent of a dove (a white, flying creature)... which came down upon my Lord and went IN him.
By witnessing this, John could personally bear witness to the TRUTH that this One was in fact the Chosen One, the One "anointed" by God... as evidenced by that "dovelike" spirit coming upon him. John 3:6-8; Acts 2:2
I hope this helps and, again, peace to you all!
A slave of Christ,
SA