I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

by EdenOne 284 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  EdenOne

  Because, as you so relentlessly claim, we should always adhere to reality, stick to the evidence, and be prepared to back up spectacular claims with facts. The claim that deities don't exist is at least as spectacular as the claim that they exist. Big claims demand overwhelming evidence, as you always say. Theists can never find evidence that will sufficiently satisfy unbelievers, and atheists cannot provide evidence of the inexistence of a deity that will convince theists. Since you so like Ocam's Razor, the simplest, verifiable claim that can be made about God (or any deity that you chose to elect) isn't that it doesn't exist; simply that it is absent.

  Eden
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  cofty

  The claim that deities don't exist is at least as spectacular as the claim that they exist.

  Not it isn't.

  Once you define god I can provide overwhelming evidence that it doesn't exist.

  If you refuse to define "god" you aren't saying anything.
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  OneEyedJoe

  I went from agnostic to atheist when I realized that the only way to get to a god that could possibly exist and fit the observable evidence would have to be so watered down that there would be no reason to call such an entity "god."

  God is certainly not necessary to explain anything. Even if some entity exists that kicked off our universe, he did little more to earn the title of god than Jacques Clouseau did to earn the title inspector. What's the point in having a god that deserves neither worship, nor respect?

  When you add it all up, an absentee god is equivalent to no god. Since no god seems to be much more likely (not to mention the more useful and intellectually honest theory) what's the point in jumping through hoops just to say that god might exist?
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  cofty

  An agnostic is an atheist who still has more thinking to do.
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  EdenOne

  There isn't a universally accepted definition of a deity that we can honestly discuss. We can only make conjectures about who, what that entity might be. But, given the absence of said deity, any discussion we may start about it may start with wrong premises. It's incredibly pretensious to say : "define me any deity and I shall prove its inexistence". What a preposterous claim - it sounds very much like a profession of faith. No, Cofty. Both Theists and Atheists make spectacular claims about deity or deities and none of them can provide the necessary overwhelming evidence to back up their claims. It's the only thing that can be honestly said about God - that it's absent.

  As for God not corresponding to the ideas we have about God ... I don't see in it enough logical grounds to be an atheist. Perhaps, one could say "I don't care if the God I expected to exist does indeed exist or not. It's indifferent to me." That's another story - that's "apatheism" - apathy towards God.

  Eden
• 

  stuckinarut2

  Children children....

  why don't you both go to your rooms for a while and stop arguing...

  (SORRY I love you both...I am just poking fun)
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  cofty

  It's incredibly pretensious to say : "define me any deity and I shall prove its inexistence".

  No it isn't. Define god and let's do it.

  It's the only thing that can be honestly said about God - that it's absent.

  It can't be absent unless you it exists. You begin with an unstated extravagant claim.

  There isn't a universally accepted definition of a deity that we can honestly discuss

  I wasn't asking for a "universally accepted definition". You claim there is a god who is absent. Define THIS god and we can discuss your claim.

  If you won't/can't define your "god" then you are saying precisely nothing.
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  EdenOne

  Why not just say there is absolutely no evidence for god and leave it at that?

  Because that is absolutely NOT the same thing as saying "God doesn't exist". There lies the fallacy. I agree with you on the lack of evidence. But that only proves the absence of the deity, not its inexistence. There's a logical leap on your reasoning that doesn't adhere to reality, and indeed is a spectacular claim that demands overwhelming evidence from atheists - as much as the evidence demanded from theists.

  Eden

  
  
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  cofty

  I don't see in it enough logical grounds to be an atheist

  An atheist is somebody who doesn't accept the grandiose claims of theism.

  What is difficult about that?
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  EdenOne

  Again, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say. I said: "The only thing that can be said about God (or deity or deities) is that it's absent, hence I'm an absentheist". I didn't say "There is a God and it's absent". Stop putting words in my mouth so that you can argue against them.

  Eden