It's all in the grammar...

by Chalam 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi JWNers,

    I posted a verse or two from this passage earlier and it reminded me about the biblical grammar in statements concerning the Father and Son.

    Revelation 22 (English Standard Version)

    1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. OK, "the throne of God and of the Lamb" is mentioned. Obviously, from the statement it is one throne, not two. Doesn't that make the Lamb equal to God? 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. "His name" is mentioned but who's name is being referred to, God's or the Lamb's? Similarly, who's face will be seen, the Lamb's or God's? Matthew 5:8, 1 John 4:12 , Hebrews 1:3, Colossians 1:15 5 And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever. Who will be their light, the Lamb or God? Revelation 21:23 6 And he said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place."

    7 "And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."

    Who is coming soon, the Lamb or God? Revelation 3:11-12, Revelation 22:20

    8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, 9 but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."

    10 And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy."

    12 "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

    Who is coming soon? The Alpha and the Omega? Which one, the Son or the Father? Revelation 1:8, Revelation 21:6

    The First and the Last? Which one? Revelation 1:17, Revelation 2:8

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • Think About It
    Think About It

    Figuring out God & Jesus is as easy as counting your balls. If you have 3......I'll accept the Trinity.

    Think About It

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    If you have 4......you may well be cross-eyed.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    I count only 2 Persons.

    Syl

  • Think About It
    Think About It
    Figuring out God & Jesus is as easy as counting your balls.
    I count only 2 Persons.

    Sylvia........please tell me you didn't look down and "count".

    Think About It

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    OOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!!

    I did it again!

    I can never get those sly references.

    Please forgive me.

    Syl

  • tec
    tec

    I thought that was pretty funny, Syl and Think :)

  • Think About It
    Think About It

    OOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!!

    I did it again!
    I can never get those sly references.

    RELIEF.

    Think About It

  • Ding
    Ding

    Often when discussing things like the Alpha and Omega, first and last, people trained by the WTS say, "That's only 2; the trinity is 3."

    This is a typical Watchtower defense mechanism -- when discussion of a particular passage challenges your dogma, switch to another subject.

    The person making the point about Jesus usually switches to talking about the Holy Spirit and the JW escapes actually confronting what the text says about the Alpha and Omega, first and last.

    First get the issue of who Jesus is settled, then move on to discussion of the Holy Spirit.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    First get the issue of who Jesus is settled, then move on to discussion of the Holy Spirit.

    Understood. However, you need the Holy Spirit to reveal who Jesus is :)

    John 14:26 (New International Version)

    26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

    John 15:26 (New International Version)

    26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

    1 Corinthians 2:13 (New International Version)

    13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

    1 Thessalonians 1:5 (New International Version)

    5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

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