“The origin of Jesus is Jehovah”
All quotes from the ASV.
The personality of Jesus has troubled me a lot. Trinitarians say that he’s part of the same being and he fully man, fully God on earth. I could never believe that as Jesus often says the Father is stronger than he and has another higher mind which the son doesn’t fully possess.
This verses will always go against the Trinitarians;
John 5:30I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 17:11And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
Matthew 24:35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 24:36But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. 24:37And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. (NOT refering to Christ’s earthly existence.)
The Arian JW says he pre-existed as a god or even angel who created all but himself, that he was fully man and zero divine on earth and that he was resurrected as a spirit. I fought hard for that version a long time but I finally realised that that one wasn’t true. Apart from the fact that he was resurrected in his body and he carried up to heavens, didn’t fly, Hebrews 1 had a major impact on me rejecting Arianism. I used to read Hebrews 1 with delight as an Arian. Jesus was a god, he was appointed heir and exalted by the Father.
Hebrews 1:1God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, 1:2hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; 1:3who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 1:4having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.
And, the first of Pauls quote from Psalms didnt bother me at all. Paul quotes Psalms:
Psalms 45:6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 45:7Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
I also read in Psalms 45:
Psalms 45:1My heart overfloweth with a goodly matter; I speak the things which I have made touching the king: My tongue is the pen of a ready writer. 45:2Thou art fairer than the children of men; Grace is poured into thy lips: Therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
No problem for an Arian, Jesus got exalted after his resurrection and this Psalm so clearly speaks of Jesus not God himself.
The 2nd quote gave me serious problems one night I studied:
Psalms 102:25Of old didst thou lay the foundation of the earth; And the heavens are the work of thy hands. 102:26They shall perish, but thou shalt endure; Yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; As a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: 102:27But thou art the same, And thy years shall have no end.
This whole refers to Jehovah!
Now the Trinitarians applauds. But was Jesus Jehovah on earth then? The Bible tells another story and that’s my reason for rejecting Trinitarian thinking;
Matthew 1:16and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. 8:2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death. 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 8:4that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Hebrews :13And there is no creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 4:14Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 4:15For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, 2:6who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;
So Jesus was fully man and zero God on earth. What was his origin?
As an Arian I didn’t understand these verses, I like the JWs had to alter them;
John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:2The same was in the beginning with God. 1:3All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
John 1:14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
This verse helped open my eyes;
Psalms 33:6By the word of Jehovah were the heavens made, And all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
The OT speaks of one creator God, not two:
Isaiah 45:11Thus saith Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: Ask me of the things that are to come; concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands, command ye me. 45:12I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens; and all their host have I commanded.
The many verses in NT speaking of Jesus’ share of the creation is thus explained.
Angels/God’s messengers are throughout the OT manifesting God. An example is the Garden of Eden where almost all translations falsely translates that God walked in the garden, when the Hebrew word is Elohim which should rightly be translated angels as they all translate it in Job 1:6. In some old less known translations you actually see it worded ‘the gods’. A close translation of Elohim is the mighty ones or the godlike.
Another example is regarding Jacob and God:
Genesis 32:24And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 32:25And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him. 32:26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 32:27And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 32:28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 32:29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 32:30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Hosea 12:4yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed; he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him at Beth-el, and there he spake with us, 12:5even Jehovah, the God of hosts; Jehovah is his memorial name.
Hoseas 12:4 Yea he strove against a Messenger, and prevailed, he wept, and made supplication unto him,—At Bethel, he found him, and, there, he spake with us; 5 And, Yahweh, is God of host,—Yahweh, is his memorial. (Rotherham)
Lots of Trinitarians translations blur the meaning while Scandinavian translations and some English render it as it should. The meaning is clear. Jehovah was manifested through an angel in the OT occations. But not in the case of the man Jesus Christ.
I have found that Jesus is God’s word manifested in flesh. A word isn’t a physical manifestation, it’s a uttering of once will. By the word God created the heavens, proving that he spoke to the angels in Genesis, the immortal perfect sons of God. That angels are mortal and that demons/satan exists as actual beings is another thought I have rejected. God’s will became sinful flesh in Christ Jesus. Filled with the Holy Spirit he overcame sin which is imposible for any other human. Therefore he’s our mediator and therefore God has given him a name above anyone else, including angels. Jehovah made him heir. I believe Jesus is an immortal man today who have been exalted over any of Jehovah’s creations. Jesus was and is a man, a perfect man (existing in the form of God as Phil 2:6 says) and he’s of God, he’s God’s man. All the verses where Jesus is refered to as man, makes sense to me now;
Acts 2:22Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know;
Acts 17:30The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked; but now he commandeth men that they should all everywhere repent: 17:31inasmuch as he hath appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Acts 7:56and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. 7:57But they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and rushed upon him with one accord; 7:58and they cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. 7:59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon the Lord, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 7:60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
All this has also made me understand and appreciate the role of Lord Jesus Christ, our mediator. Trinitarians nor Arians give him his the credit due. He was 100% man and he submitted himself, humbled himself and became perfect. He wasn’t a God is disguise, he was borned of a woman. This didn’t make him strive to become God, instead he gave all to Jehovah. It’s so import to view them distinct;
Romans 10:9because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
John 17:3And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 8:6yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
Always when Jesus and God is spoken of together in the NT, they are distinct from eachother.
I have been blessed with clear understanding of these verses;
John 8:58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
Genesis 3:14And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 3:15and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Jesus is not only the son of God, he’s also the blessing words given as promise to Adam and to Abraham. As existing in Gods eternal plans, God who knows all past, present and future he’s eternal.
John 20:28Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Thomas has seen that Gods Word is true. This reflects with Paul’s words in Romans 10:9. One God Jehovah and one Lord, without the search for Jehovah is futile.
John 10:11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep.
Jesus is our Lord! The people in OT did not have a Jesus as mediator. They had one God and one Law, we have one God and one Lord as mediator. Jesus is our shepherd. He’s Word of Jehovah made flesh, the new covenant. If we see him as Jehovah himself it’s theoretically the same as getting to God without any Covenant.
I can’t get to Jehovah on my own, so I acknowledge Lord Jesus as the mediator of the saints, he’s the new covenant. He’s up in heaven in his human yet incorruptible and immortal body mediating. Yes he’s the Alpha and the Omega like God (just like the Word is God) because his source is God, his origin is Jehovah himself and he’s always been in the mind of God who has always been. At the same time, this understanding have given me a much closer relationship to Jesus, rather than seeing as merely servant and co-god, I see him as Gods Word and saving plan made flesh.
God Bless
"Notes on John 8:58"
All quotes ASV.
John 8:48The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 8:49Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 8:50But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 8:52The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 8:53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself? 8:54Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God; 8:55and ye have not known him: but I know him; and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be like unto you, a liar: but I know him, and keep his word. 8:56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad. 8:57The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 8:58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am. 8:59They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.
John 1:15John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me (cross ref to John 8:58).
I quoted 11 verses from John 8 here to get the context. At first Jesus do not teach he’s God himself, he does as all other places teach that the Father has given him authority AND points out that the Father is mightier.
Ok, John 8:58 is said to be one of these out of context trinity prooftexts. However, it’s proven wrong that Jesus is not Jehovah in 8:56. ’See my day’, hardly a term to use for God himself which Abraham spoke to many times nor does Jesus say he himself saw Abraham, but Abraham saw his day (VERY important detail). You can’t play games with us CD’s. As I pointed out the CDs uphold the biblical truth that Jesus is the by God himself promised seed and hope of the Kingdom (the real world, the only future) made flesh. It’s very important to note that Abraham is the Father of the Jewish people. What hopes did he receive? What was ’Jesus’ day to Abraham that never saw Jesus himself? Well:
Genesis 12:1Now Jehovah said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee: 12:2and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make they name great; and be thou a blessing; 12:3and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 18:9And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent. 18:10And he said, I will certainly return unto thee when the season cometh round; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard in the tent door, which was behind him. 18:11Now Abraham and Sarah were old, and well stricken in age; it had ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. 18:12And Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also? 18:13And Jehovah said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, who am old? 18:14Is anything too hard for Jehovah? At the set time I will return unto thee, when the season cometh round, and Sarah shall have a son. 18:15Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
SO, Jehovah promises to bless the world in Abrahams seed although Sarah was too old to carry children (without Gods interference). By using the Godly ‘I am’ reference, Jesus tells us that he’s the hope and prophet of God. The Jews draw your wrong interpretations because they like you don’t see the depths. Jesus doesn’t say that Abraham saw him as a being. He’s actually carrying out Gods will like God through his angels emerged the Exodus of the Jews in Exodus 3:14 and consistently serves as in this verse:
Exodus 3:2And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
In this sense let’s again note the Trinitarians reasoning.
John 8:58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
He doesn’t say that he’s God himself here, it’s an (wrong) interpretation. Again, let’s get back to the overall lack of reasoning of the Trinitarians. God himself walking around in sinful flesh being born by Mary? Hardly.. Again, the context of the chapter or just surrounding verses, is he calling himself God himself? No, his Son, his prophet, a mighty man in terms of his service to God.
Jesus said that he was the resurrection and life. The rightious will be resurrected to life. Abraham believed/obeyed and lived by the old covenant and therefore he will be resurrected.
The overall context of the Word doesn’t back up that Jesus is Jehovah nor does he call himself that anywhere. The Trinitarian prooftexts are all taken out of context and can all be explained provided people are taught in the Word. One example is John 1:1 which utterly proof the Trinity wrong or John 20:28 where the Trinitarians interpret not based on the true teachings. There are two, the mediator which is the Lord and the Almigthy which is God in this relationship in these pre-millenium reign times. God is everywhere present when the believer seek him so God was present when Thomas called him God and Jesus his Lord. Thus we see in John 20:17 that Jesus call God his God. The Trinitarians miss the simpel messsage that Jesus is our mediator and high priest in our relationship to God Almighty where the Jews in the OT had their keeping of the Law and circumcision as mediator. Again we must understand that Protestantism is a NT/paganism religion Christadelphianism is the truth of OT and NT. It’s simply the Bible truth been proven again and again. None reading the OT could ever make up the idea that the creator himself came down to us in flesh. It’s theory made Holy law by unspirited men. It would simply not be posible as he live in unapproachable light (1 Tim 6:6) but his servants makes him known, they are the ones that are able to handle people. Jesus was made lower than angels (Hebrews 2:7) but his efforts and destiny was so much higher than them. Therefore God raised him (notice the two beings? Not that hard) and gave him a name higher than any (Phil 2:9, Isaiah 9:6). Jehovah was the one making it all posible but not the one being crucified. The out of context Trinitarians says ‘who’s the saviour of the OT? – Jehovah. But forget that there’s no saviour in the OT but the Jewish Law, no Jesus in the OT. Any ref. to Jesus in the OT is a prophecy. But then the Trinitarians deny the significance of the millenium reign, the real ‘heaven’ so what do they know (the home in heaven Paul speaks of at a point is figurative kept away from the world but will come after the Millenium reign, Revelations 20 where Jerusalem will come down from heaven, Revelations 21, thus making all the OT promises of an earthly paradise true). So the Trinitarians fail again and again. As a Christadelphian said at a point, “The idea of the creator dying for men is a pagan concept not found Bible. We must not add anything unbiblical to the Word”. This is the biblical truth and any other version will always be out of context however much the dark hordes promote it. Anyone claiming to follow the NT better be sure that their views are based on OT and not on other religions as the Trinitarians.
God Bless