What did Jesus mean: "I Am?"

by wannabe 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • wannabe

    What Did Jesus mean "I Am?"

    One must marvel at the lack of fear, and respect, false Religious teacher's display, today, as they twist and warp Jehovah God's marvelous word of Truth to support their obvious, warped versions of the Truth of God's word. Trying to convince others that Jesus was God Jehovah in the flesh; while Jehovah himself contradicted that belief, as did his own Son. These scripture twisters have no fear right now, but mere fear is the least of their concerns; they will know Terror like no one has ever known Terror before, when Jehovah rises up to call them all to account.

    We might look at now, the two scriptures they use to support their lie; and notice how one is very conveniently quoted out of context that is the basis for their false teaching, beginning with John 8:58:

    58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"{John 8:58 NIV} Let me just say this, at this point. Even if I only just opened the Bible for the first time, my conclusion Drawn, would be that Jesus was saying he was in existence even before Abraham was born. That would of course be because of his words: "Before Abraham was born, "Iam!" Or I was in existence long before Abraham was born. Without knowing anything at all about the Bible, that is the more sensible logical conclusion to draw; and it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that out. Surprisingly enough the Bible supports that conclusion, 100%. As I'll go on to show. Now look at the scripure they purposely quote out of context to support their lie:

    12 "And God said, "I will be with you. And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you will worship God on this mountain."13 Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" 14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you."{Exodus 3:12-14 NIV} Well now! These liars appear to have it made in the shade, as the saying goes. But do they really? Lets look at the verse they very carefully omit to suit their lie:

    15 "And God said moreover unto Moses,Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations." {Exodus 3:15 ASV} So! They have purposely skirted a very minor detail, let's say. They left out Jehovah's Memorial name to all generations. Now I say purposely because they were wise enough to use the verses they wanted to mislead others with, and no one can tell me that they didn't read verse 15, because they read it alright but their purpose was, and is, to mislead; and no one with even half a brain would use a scripture, that they absolutely knew would make liars out of them. So, it is a deliberate attempt to mislead others, and they know full well what they are doing and that is going to get them all killed as dead as dead can be.

    Look, now how, Jehovah identifies his Son in the following verse of scripture:

    21 "Now it came to pass, when all the people were baptized, that, Jesus also having been baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." {Luke 3:21,22 NIV}

    31 "The Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), 36 say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" {John 10:31-36 ASV}

    You will notice, I hope, that Jehovah never called his Son God, nor did Jesus refer to himself as God. Jehovah had said: "Thou art, {You are} my beloved Son." While Jesus had said: "I am the Son of God." Anyone care to call Jehovah and his Son liars? I would certainly hope you wouldn't do that. For your own good!

    You might look too at the words of Jesus in the following verse of scripture:

    17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." {20:17 NIV}John

    Now! Was Jesus to be God, he would have never have referred to his Father, as "MY GOD!" Think about it!

    Look where you will, throughout the Synoptic Gospels, you will never find the Bible writers referring to Jesus as "God," always and ever, the "Son of God"and you will always find them referring to Jehovah as the "Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." They totally ignore the Gospel accounts that proves them to be nothing but liars; but that's par for those who favor the teachings of Demons over the Truth of the Bible; and I guess, sad, but true, but to be expected now, because it was all foretold ahead of time by Paul:

    1"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." {1 Timothy 4:1,2 NIV}

    How do we know that Jesus was on the scene long before Abraham was Born; as a matter of fact, long before this World was even created? Notice Jesus own words on this now:

    5 "Now, Father, Glorify Me in Your presence with that Glory I had with You before the world existed." {John 17:5 HCSB} Can we ascertain about just how long Jesus existed with that Glory alongside his Father before the World was? Notice these next words:

    2 " Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are small among the clans of Judah; One will come from you to be ruler over Israel for Me. His origin is from antiquity, from eternity." {Micah 5:2 HCSB}

    Of course this is now talking about Spiritual Israel, the Israel of God, of which Jesus was to rule over. {Galatians 6:16}

    From Antiquity! From Eternity! Anyone care to hazzard a guess as to just how long Jesus has been in existence, as a Glorified Heavenly Spirit Angel? You cannot put a Day Date on it now can you? But quite obviously, he was in existence long before Abraham was Born; long before this World was even created.

    Now Notice what John the Baptist had to say about Jesus:

    15 "John testified concerning Him and exclaimed, "This was the One of whom I said, The One coming after me has surpassed me, because He existed before me." {John 1:15 HCSB}

    30 "This is the One I told you about: 'After me comes a man who has surpassed me, because He existed before me." {John 1:30 HCSB} Keep in mind John was Born six Months earlier than Jesus. Just to give you something to ponder over.

    Now! With the information I have supplied you all with, you do not have to be a Brain Surgeon to know now what Jesus meant when he said; "Before Abraham was Born, "I Am!" "I was, before the World was!" Need I say more? Wannabe

  • Midget-Sasquatch

    Let me preface that I'm not trinitarian but I do have a soft spot for some of the "heterodox" ideas about Jesus <----- "hetero" to JWs and most other Protestant and Catholic groups, anyways.

    Now, if Trinitarians just had that single matching "I AM" expression found at John 8:58 and Exodus 3:12-14, then all you put forward could make their position seem somewhat weaker.

    But readers of John who were very familiar with the Septuagint would recall a few more matches to some interesting passages in Isaiah.

    Like Isaiah 41:4 where Yahweh is clearly calling himself the first and the last and that "I am he", or another example would be the comparison found between what Yahweh says at Isaiah 43:10 and what Jesus is made to say at John 13:19.

    Couple that Old Testament literature background to yet other ways John uses the "I AM" expression and then one can see how there can be a strong case made that John portrays a Jesus who is much more Divine than just a created angel. (like when Jesus says that he is the man the roman soldiers were looking for and everyone falls to the ground...He utters "I AM" and people bow down...like in obeisance)

    Personally I think the earliest edition of John was heavily proto-gnostic.

  • GLTirebiter

    There is much more in John 8 than those two key words, "I Am". This entire chapter is about Jesus' encounter with the scribes and pharisees in the temple. Jesus made several statements about who he was, until they finally understood:

    [23] Jesus went on: You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. [24] I have told you already: You will die in your sins. Yes, if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins. [25] So they said to him, 'Who are you?' Jesus answered: What I have told you from the outset.

    [51] In all truth I tell you, whoever keeps my word will never see death. [52] The Jews said, 'Now we know that you are possessed. Abraham is dead, and the prophets are dead, and yet you say, "Whoever keeps my word will never know the taste of death." [53] Are you greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? The prophets are dead too. Who are you claiming to be?'

    Now the pharisees are waiting for him to overtly blashpheme (in their view). Jesus responds by quoting Exodus, knowing how the scribes and pharisees will interpret his words. Remember, the Jews did not utter the sacred name, they used circumlocutions to avoid profaning it. "I am" was well known as a reference to God.

    [58] Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I am. [59] At this they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself and left the Temple.

    The scribes and pharisees understood what Jesus meant, the same meaning Christian churches ascribe to Jesus' use of that phrase. He was claiming divinity, something blasphemous in the view of the pharisees. The pharisees reached for stones to execute Jesus for saying those words, "I am", because in that age, in that context, those words meant exacly what traditional Christian teachings ascribe to this chapter of John's Gospel.

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    What did Jesus mean?

    Same as Popeye.


  • possible-san

    Well, I interpret symbolically the meaning of "I AM."



  • designs

    'All - One' Dr. Bronner's Soaps www.drbronner.com

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