MORE on how JWs inadvertently helped support same sex marriage

by AndersonsInfo 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • AndersonsInfo
    AndersonsInfo

    http://oyetimes.com/views/columns/5119-jehovahs-witnesses-support-same-sex-marriage-inadvertently

    Jehovah’s Witnesses support same sex marriage inadvertently

    Sunday, 08 August 2010 10:16 Written by Stephan Pate 5 Comments Despite JW fundamentalist ban of gay marriage, old Supreme Court ruling in their favour used to defeat Prop 8 in California The California decision by United States District Chief Judge Vaughn R Walker reversed Prop 8′s ban of same-sex or gay marriage in the state. Part of the legal argument FOR gay marriage comes from a 65 year old Supreme Court ruling that granted freedom of religious expression to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Walker said that the majority opinion does not eliminate fundamental rights for a minority. Ironically Jehovah’s Witnesses ban same-sex marriage. They disfellowship or shun any member who openly participates in same-sex acts or relationships. The reference by Judge Walker to West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette will have the Watchtower Society scratching their heads. “How did we help those wicked sons and daughters of Sodom and Gomorrah?” they will be asking themselves. It was never the intention of the intolerant Witness religion to grant any freedom of expression outside their own narrow view. Any attempt to practice freedom of expression in act or speech within the ranks of Jehovah’s Witnesses is dealt with KGB-like control and punishment. In his story How Jehovah’s Witnesses helped kill Prop 8 documentary filmmaker Joel P. Engardio argues that Witnesses played a big part in the Judges decision through the old Supreme Court ruling. Engardio, who is openly gay himself, argues Walker used the Witness precedent of their Constitutional right to unpopular religious practices to support his order to quash Prop 8. “Will anyone thank Jehovah’s Witnesses for their role in getting the law declared unconstitutional?” USA Today Like many fundamentalist religious, Jehovah’s Witnesses doctrine is based on literal interpretation of bible texts. In the official Awake magazine article of April 8, 2005 Jehovah’s Witnesses come out strongly against same sex relationships

    “Our Creator established rules governing marriage long before governments began regulating the institution. The opening book of the Bible tells us: “A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24) The well-known Biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah reveals God’s feelings about homosexuality. God declared: “The cry of complaint about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy.” (Genesis 18:20) The extent of their sinful depravity at that time was apparent when two guests visited the righteous man Lot.

    “The men of Sodom . . . surrounded the house, from boy to old man, all the people in one mob. And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: ‘Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intercourse with them.’” (Genesis 19:4, 5) The Bible says: “The men of Sodom were bad and were gross sinners against Jehovah.”—Genesis 13:13.
    The men became “violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males.” (Romans 1:27) They had “gone out after flesh for unnatural use.” (Jude 7) In countries where homosexual rights campaigns are pervasive, some may object to using the word “unnatural” to describe homosexual behavior. However, is not God the final arbiter when it comes to nature? He commanded his ancient people: “You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”— Leviticus 18:22.” Awake

    The matter is not just personal choice for a Jehovah’s Witness. Any witness who admits to homosexual or other non male-female sex inside a marriage will be disfellowshipped, which is the Jehovah’s Witness version of excommunication. A disfellowshipped ex-Witness is cut off from the congregation and will be shunned by their own family. They are not allowed to associate any further with their former families or church members. “If detected, gays and lesbian (Witnesses) who refuse to remain celibate are expected to repent of their actions and to refrain from same-sex behavior in the future. Those who refuse are almost inevitably disfellowshipped. The WTS expects all of its members to agree with and follow all of the requirements of the organization, which are based on the WTS’ interpretation of the Bible.” “While disfellowshipped, fellow members are required to shun him/her completely, avoiding all contact. If the disfellowshiped person is a family member, then they are treated normally within the family, except that they are made to understand that their actions are disapproved of. There is no discussion about church matters in their presence. This can have a devastating effect on a person whose entire religious, family and social life were grounded in the Society.” Jehovah’s Witnesses & homosexuality behavior The confidential guide for local elders to determine who should be excommunicated or disfellowshipped states that same sex acts are dealt with in a “judicial hearing”, the official process of disfellowshipping. The number of sexual acts that will result in disfellowshipping is quite broad including “oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other, homosexuality, lesbianism, [sic] fornication, adultery, incest, and bestiality”. Evidence of immoral sexual activity can be as little as “the accused stayed all night…with a known homosexual…under improper circumstances, is acceptable proof.” Jehovah’s Witnesses & homosexuality behavior

    While making his arguments, I wonder if Engardio is hoping for some relaxed religious tolerance from Jehovah’s Witnesses that would allow him acceptance with his Jehovah’s Witness family. That would be a “faint hope”.

    Comments

    0 #5 William Belle 2010-08-08 14:30 An excellent article, well written, well researched. And most of all, it is hilarious! Good work Stephan. This very much reminds me of watching the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. He reports something which unto itself is quite absurd then Jon leans into the camera and adds, "I don't even have to make up a joke." Quote 0 #4 Danny Haszard 2010-08-08 13:45 Jehovah's Witnesses have won 37 of their 46 US Supreme court cases assuring us all of freedom of speech and assembly and equal protection under the law.

    The sad irony is that the Watchtower Society *daily* abuses the human rights of thousands of its members. It denies current members the right of free speech by forbidding them to speak to former members, even close family members.
    And it denies former members their right of freedom of worship by refusing to allow them to leave the religion with dignity, should they come to disagree with Watchtower's practices or doctrines.
    --
    Danny Haszard JW dissident my life story growing up JW
    dannyhaszard.com Quote +1 #3 Vinny T 2010-08-08 13:44 Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) predicted the end of the world, IN WRITING, numerous times. Not once did they come true. They are known for their false predictions the world over.

    JW's are taught that they alone are True Christians and that all other people not JW will soon be destroyed. This is no exaggeration.

    JW's will allow their children to DIE rather than accept a life saving blood transfusion even in severe medical emergencies.

    JW's used to forbid Vaccinations and Organ Transplants (calling a life saving transplant "Cannibalism") for a combined 33 years.

    JW's enforce extreme shunning for any member that decides to leave their religion or who commits a sin without showing enough repentance in front of the elders.

    Families have been devastated because of these harsh shunning policies. I have literally seen Parents cut off all ties with their children solely because the kid did not want to remain a JW but went in another direction. Quote -2 #2 Caring2 2010-08-08 12:03 The JW organization fights for their rights that our Law provides. However, to their own members they take away personal right of free thought, personal research, to question any JW doctrine, to any degree. Otherwise, the JW organization has a form of an organizational execution (severe disfellowshipping) affecting the members relationship with their own family and personal JW friends. Please continue to INVESTIGATE JWs at freeminds.org and jwfacts.com Quote

    -3 #1 Gay Bethelite 2010-08-08 10:47

    Joel P. Engardio
    writer, documentary filmmaker IS a former Jehovah's Witness member who was involved enough to have gone door to door.NOW he is an outspoken Gay activist.
    He is NOT disfellowshipped (excommunicated,shunned,kicked out,treated as dead)or less severe even considered an 'unapproved associate'(like the thousands of gay and lesbian JW kids who have been disfellowshipped.
    The fundy Watchtower society USES him to promote direct & star in their PBS Knocking promotional flick and also uses him as a major spokesman for 4 other outlets on the web this is
    hypocrisy big time.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Oh, I love the irony!!! I really laugh when the WTBTS' hypocrisy turns around and bites them in the arse!!!

    Did Joel Engardio actually have something to do with "Knocking"????

    Zid

  • blondie
    blondie

    Yes, he did, it was his baby (he was filmmaker) and he promoted strongly.

    http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/knocking/bios.html

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    I find it a bit hyprocritical of him, to praise JWs organization so highly, yet on the other hand, knows he wouldn't be a JW for anything. He knows he would be shunned to high-heaven. He would seem to not have any empathy for all the JW youth 'in his shoes' being shunned because they were baptized so young, then became openly gay, as he is now.

    He praises the JWs for their push for their freedom, yet knows such freedom is not allowed for their members of their basic freedoms, without an organizational execution.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Interesting, Blondie...

    Thanks for the link.

    I wonder what he was thinking when he made the video?? Wonder how much his views have changed by now??

    Gotta go back to your link and look for his current comments...

    Zid

  • FatFreek 2005
    FatFreek 2005

    Joel P. Engardio
    writer, documentary filmmaker IS a former Jehovah's Witness member who was involved enough to have gone door to door. NOW he is an outspoken Gay activist.
    He is NOT disfellowshipped (excommunicated,shunned,kicked out,treated as dead)or less severe even considered an 'unapproved associate'(like the thousands of gay and lesbian JW kids who have been disfellowshipped.

    This seems out of line to JW policy, the fact that he is not in a disfellowshipped state. That quote mentions his being a member, which by their standards would imply that he was baptized.

    Here's what Wikipedia says about his baptized state: Engardio graduated from Michigan State University, majoring in journalism and history. He was born and raised in Saginaw, Michigan where his mother was the only member of a large Italian Catholic family to join Jehovah's Witnesses. Joel Engardio himself was never baptized as a witness.[9] He currently lives in New York.

    Len

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    I went back into the site and read some of the pages and pages of replies/responses to the video...

    There's a lot of reading material there...

    Something I read towards the bottom of Mr. Engardio's brief bio, indicated that his mother was the only Jehovah's Witness in a predominantly-Catholic family....

    At any rate, I suppose his attitudes have changed.

    Being a brat, and in response to all the pro-JW comments there, especially the ones discouraging people from researching online about the JWs, I posted approximately this:

    "Some people tend to leap into a religion in much the same manner as people leaping headfirst into marriage - without looking first.
    Whenever I am job-shopping, I research the prospective employer online, by searching the company's name and the word "lawsuit". I did this with four prospective employers, and was astonished at the results I received. As a result of said results, I chose not to seek employment with said companies.
    Having said that, if one doesn't want to research Jehovah's Witnesses online, one can go to one's local Kingdom Hall and ask to see ALL of their OLD literature - to peruse at your leisure, either at the Kingdom Hall or within the comfort of your own home.
    It would be most interesting if the Jehovah's Witnesses refuse such a request..."

    Hee hee!!! Ain't I a stinker!!!

    Zid

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Whooopsies!!!

    How did I miss this????

    "He graduated from Michigan State University, where he majored in journalism and history. Engardio was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness in Saginaw, Michigan, but never joined the religion.His mother is the only Jehovah’s Witness in his mostly Catholic family. Engardio lives in San Francisco. ..."

    That was at the bottom of the bio on the Knocking page...

    Duh - uh....

    Zid

  • Jankyn
    Jankyn

    My understanding is that Engardio was never baptized. He went door-to-door as an unbaptized publisher. And he's so nice to JWs because he wants his JW mother to love him (understandable enough, but it won't work).

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