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Syl
Swimming Lessons Are Definitely On My To-Do List
by snowbird 123 Replies latest social physical
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AGuest
Well, since the thread hasn't died, yet (may you all have peace!)... and work is really sloowwwwwwww, today (which it usually is when I get verbose)...
No, Broken Promises, I see the world in full color - warts and all.
Good for YOU, Ms. Sylvie (peace to you, darlin’!)… because black is, after all, a color. ALL of the colors, combined, actually... (okay, really, dark brown...)
we always regarded swimming, golfing, and playing tennis as "their" pursuits.
Yes, and hence, my comment as to WHY we’ve “always” had such regard, that:
“… overall and in order to shake off the "bad taste" in our mouths about the whole thing... we just convinced ourselves that swimming was really a "luxury" that we just couldn't afford... We would stay away from the water and "they" would stay away from us… we created all kinds of believable excuses to help our children get over not being able (as in permitted) to swim… and so swimming became almost taboo, certainly "demonized"... because it wasn't accessible to us… we TAUGHT ourselves... and our children... that it wasn't important, not really even desirable.”
We (and so we certainly do bear some responsibility for the situation today, of course; but not its origin, the reason for the “birth” of the “culture” that was mentioned) long ago created a fear in our children in order to take away the desire… so they wouldn’t reach for something it appeared then that they would never have. Or might lose their lives trying to get. And it’s true with a number of other activities, as well. For example, skiing (“You might break your neck”)… flying (“people don’t belong in the air”)… staying in hotels vs. motels (“that’s for white folks”). The TRUTH is that we were restricted from such activities… because of race first, and economics (as a result of race) second.
For those who really would like to understand the phenomenon, I offer that years prior to just the last couple/few generations (a generation being about 15 years for us), the “world” was not a very “you can do/be anything you want to do/be” place for everyone… but for only some. There were many things that were considered out of our reach, technically and literally. True, not all of “us” bought that melarkey… but those of us who didn’t often paid for “reaching out” beyond our... ummmm… let’s say, “neighborhood.” We weren’t told we could; to the contrary, we were told we could not, indeed, do not. As to all sorts of things. Including something as harmless as swimming.
I will give a little more of my own personal experience so that those who really do want to know might try to understand where I’m coming from. I did well in school as a child, so much so that I was among those first “bussed” out of my neighborhood to a school way across town to participate in the “gifted” program(s). By across town, however, I mean I had to be up and at the bus stop long before the sun came up… because my commute was 2 hours. Both ways. So, I had to be at the stop by 6am in order to be at school by 8am. That was not a problem, though. The problem was that when we got to school (and we came from all over; me, from the black suburbs), we were repeatedly told and shown, by students, teachers, and staff… that we weren’t wanted there, that we should go back to our own neighborhoods. Mind you, I didn’t ask to BE bussed. My parents didn’t ask for me to be bussed. We had no choice, because of my grades.
So, from the latter part of 7 th grade, until I returned to my neighborhood high school as a junior, I was the only black child in… well, almost everything. Most classes, clubs, intrarmural stuff, extracurricular stuff. You name it. We got harassed on the way to and from school (we had to take the city bus), by kids from other schools, as well as at school. Teachers REFUSED to call on us, very often miss-graded our homework (if they even bothered to look at it, which caused me to be labeled a trouble-maker out there because I would MAKE them look at mine AND grade them correctly), even called us derogatory names. And I lived in California (so, I can imagine how it was in the south).
Now, I’m not complaining; I’m only sharing the truth. True, I hated it as a kid – it was, well, a kind of abuse, really. Something NO child should have to go through in order to get an education. But I am VERY grateful for it as an adult, because I now understand “their” culture, as well as mine… the dreams of which are not all that different… and I got to “see” another “world,” and thus reach out past my neighborhood. Also, while I am not literally bicultural, but I am technically bicultural and, for some time, bi-lingual (if you count how we used to speak with another as a “language,” as some did try to). I am literally bi-lingual, however, because I speak/read Spanish (I grew up in San Diego – you almost couldn’t avoid it). But I learned words and thought processes, etc., that many of those of my culture will NEVER learn because they’re not immersed in the other culture as I was. There as just as many among “us” who don’t want to be integrated, either, but their “prejudice” is the RESULT of what occurred in this country to CREATE it.
One last example and then I really have to move on, but this one might really help someone “see.” When I went back to university (at age 40), my freshman English Composition instructor (a white lesbian, who was one of the most enjoyable people I’ve ever had the privilege to know! I LOVED her!), gave out an assignment that required the class to read an excerpt from the book, “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings,” written by Maya Angelou. When she did, she also addressed the class and made the statement, “I gave this same assignment to this class last semester and I need to say this: before you give me a report that entirely dismisses Ms. Angelou’s claims I suggest you do some research. If you don’t know… then you should FIND out.” And class was dismissed.
Well, a week after we turned in our reports, this instructor stood in front of the class and just stared at us for the longest time, like five whole minutes, before she addressed us. It was quite uncomfortable… and she was very obviously PO’d. When she spoke her words were something to the effect that, “When I gave you the assignment I said to you that if you didn’t know, you needed to find out. But now that I’ve read your reports… those of you that bothered to turn them in… it seems that some of you not only believe Ms. Angelou to be a liar, but believe ME to be a liar. Ms. Angelou’s works are NOT fiction, class. This assignment was for a NON-fictional writing and the things that she writes about did IN FACT occur in this country. I did not give you the assignment for the good of my health – it is REQUIRED reading under the university’s current curriculum (CSU Sacramento). Therefore, if you received a “D”… and most of you did, those who even bothered to do the assignment… you have one week to resubmit your report and I will reconsider your grade. But you must re-read the assignment and I will know if you did by your report. Those of you who received a grade of “F”… or didn’t bother to turn in the assignment… your grade will be an “F.”
Why was she PO’d? Because out of a class of 31, twenty-three… TWENTY-THREE… would receive a grade of “F.” Why? Because either they had submitted reports of less than a page stating that what Ms. Angelou wrote had NOT… COULD not… have happened in this country… OR… that they either couldn’t… or wouldn’t… write about it… because they didn’t believe it to be true. Seriously.
I was absolutely DUMBFOUNDED. Because this… was… in the fall… of 2000. And most of these were young kids, just out of high school. And only five of us had received a grade above “D”… and three of those were “C”s. One was a “B” and one, mine, was an “A”... because I grew up reading Maya Angelou… and living some parts of her life.
The excerpt was an account of the speech to her high graduation class of 1947... by its principal. I won’t quote it here, but, as my instructor said, if you DON’T know… then you need to FIND OUT. Hiding your head under the sand regarding this issue (racism) is not only “unchristian” (if you call yourself that)… it is basely immoral as a human being. And it is absolutely NO difference than Ahmadinejad saying the Holocaust never happened.
But, just like with that lie, the REST of the world knows exactly what happened in this country… and still happens today. Because many of them are the new "black folks" on the block.
I bid you all peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA, who can swim, whose son swims like a fish, whose siblings could swim because her parents could swim, and who grew up around a LOT of black kids who knew how to swim... 'cause we had a fancy pool in our 'hood (again, the black suburbs) and getting a "junior lifeguard" card was REQUIRED in order to "graduate" from the 6th grade...
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mkr32208
I um volunteer to let her try with my nuts... (see page 5)...
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Snoozy
Just a comment on the "Blacks can't swim" subject. As a child that saw first hand the blacks being denied access to resaurants, they had their own access and area to sit. They were not allowed in swimming pools except on "Negro" days. I watched them go automatically to the back of the bus. And a lot more!!
I too as a child was taught that blacks couldn't swim very well. That it was part of being black..At the time I just accepted it as fact. I forgot about it until this came up here. (We used the word Negro back in the 40's and 50's.)
As far as the swimming goes. I taught myself and my kids taught themselves. The whole family is good swimmers, but.....sometimes it doesn't matter how good you are. Things happen. I remember falling off our saiboat one summer in murkey water by the dock. The water was very deep. I went down like a bullet. I panicked when I kept going without hitting bottom to bounce back up. When I finally did hit bottom I pushed with all my might and kicked to go up. It was so dark I really was afraid I was going sideways instead of up. When I finally got to the top I knew what the fear of death was. I thought sure I was going to die. I got panicky going down and coming up. If it was any deeper I could see myself losing my breath because I was so panicky. And yet I am an excellent swimmer and jump off diving boards..even went scuba diving in lakes before.
I remember going on the river with hubby when we were teens and we would picnic on an island. Well one Island we were on we went around the back to go potty.. We were walking in the sand and all of a sudden we started sinking! I screamed for hubby to be and he was sinking also. I was up to my knees when he finnaly got free and pulled me out. I shook for hours after that. That sand was sucking me straight down!
Any surprise like falling off a ledge in the water can panic a young chiild. Even if they can swim they may react the wrong way. They could suck in water and just not think rationally. Causing them to drown.
I will no longer swim in a river or a lake as I think most of them are too polluted. I also don't like fish nibbling on my legs/toes..lol
We have a river here that is very popular for rafting but I have seen reports of several that drown in the river because of it's swift currents. I tried walking accross it as it wasn't over my head..the current was so strong I couldn't. Matter of fact one of the JW's I went to the KH with drowned in that river when out with a group of other witness kids/teens.
Snoozy, who has a lot of respect for the water.
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AGuest
Thank you, dear Snoozy... sincerely... for being a voice of reason on this topic. May you have peace, you and your entire household ('specially hubby)!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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ziddina
"We were speaking of our experiences growing up under Jim Crow laws and restrictions.. ...."
OH!!! I get it!!! Yeah, I remember some discussion of the way black entertainers were treated in the early days of Las Vegas... Seems that Dorothy Dandridge - who was drop-dead GORGEOUS, by the way - went swimming in a hotel pool in Las Vegas, and there were so many complaints by white people who didn't want to swim in water that had been 'tainted' by her, that they drained the pool!!!
HOWEVER... There is ANOTHER form of prejudice that involves WOMEN, their menstrual cycle, and public swimming - as I found out when I went swimming while using a tampon...
Apparently 'something' showed a little bit. After I'd swum for about 15 minutes, I climbed out of the pool. Suddenly, I heard a man scream loudly in disgust at having swum in the same water with me, and then he stomped out of the pool area in high dudgeon...
Yeah, I can TOTALLY identify with prejudices against swimming in the same water as myself... "Cooties" DON'T EXIST, people!! [mutter, mutter, you'd think we were dealing with third-graders...]
Zid
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nancy drew
this has turned out to be an interesting discussion on racism, it has made me review my non-jw upbringing in an italian neighborhood (i not being italian just some germanic mix) in a low income welcome back kotter type city in new jersey in the 50's/60's.
I never saw the kind of racism that existed in the south everybody in woolworths ate together at the lunch counters and used the same restrooms and swam at the beach. However, life was not w/o conversations about racism but the impressions I got were that you needed to be careful around blacks and puerto ricans because they were dangerous and if they thought you were looking at them in the wrong way theywould beat you up or worse. so I learned to be careful and be a little afraid because I was white. Sort of strange isn't it.
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nancy drew
I just thought of something else I had a friend who told me about an incident she and her friend had in alabama at the coast. they were teens and met some local boys and went for a drive they were on a bridge where some black men were fishing. the boys with them began yelling racist remarks at the men and she told me that they got real scared and ducked down in the back seat because they thought the black men would come over and kill them over what was being said. It showed how different the attitudes were north/south.
I hadn't thought about this stuff for years.
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AGuest
this has turned out to be an interesting discussion on racism
Which, while perhaps, too bad, dear Nancy (peace to you!) became necessary due to some of the questions raised/comments made. That is one thing I love about this board: conversations can be "real" in that the often imitate the real world where discussions often transition from one subject to another (i.e., "Oh, that reminds me of the time when...").
it has made me review my non-jw upbringing in an italian neighborhood (i not being italian just some germanic mix) in a low income welcome back kotter type city in new jersey in the 50's/60's. I never saw the kind of racism that existed in the south everybody in woolworths ate together at the lunch counters and used the same restrooms and swam at the beach.
Which is why many blacks from the south headed "north" and particularly to New York. My mother and three of her sisters did this - from [very] rural Virginia to "the City."
However, life was not w/o conversations about racism but the impressions I got were that you needed to be careful around blacks and puerto ricans because they were dangerous and if they thought you were looking at them in the wrong way theywould beat you up or worse. so I learned to be careful and be a little afraid because I was white. Sort of strange isn't it.
Well, it could be that those "up North" were a little bolder, yes... or wanted others to believe they were, especially in light of what USUALLY happened "down south":
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingsstate.html
(Note, the link indicates lynchings as recent as 1968, less than 45 years ago and thus in the lifetime of many here. For those who wish to note the white lynchings should keep in mind (1) most white lynchings were for actual criminals - vs. simply being of a particular race, and (2) included those who had some kind of relationship with someone of another race, including Jews, homosexuals, non-"christian", etc.).
I just thought of something else I had a friend who told me about an incident she and her friend had in alabama at the coast. they were teens and met some local boys and went for a drive they were on a bridge where some black men were fishing.
And so, minding their own business, no doubt..
the boys with them began yelling racist remarks at the men
Apprently, they hadn't learned the rule of "respect for one's elders"... or other people... at home...
and she told me that they got real scared and ducked down in the back seat because they thought the black men would come over and kill them over what was being said. It showed how different the attitudes were north/south.
Not sure I get the "difference." From what you say those in the north were not afraid but mingled without reservation, yet, these young folk down south were "afraid" the black men would kill them to making remarks. Well, golly, "we" really ARE a bunch of terrorizers, then, aren't "we"... and everyone really should be afraid of "us." Because "we" would kill children for just making off-hand remarks. Sorry, dear Nancy, but that wasn't "us":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Emmett_Till
Please note the date, just under 55 years ago... and the child was only 14...
I hadn't thought about this stuff for years.
"We" understand that... and "we" don't really expect "you" to think of it often, if at all. "We" (and particularly ME) just don't like it when "you" (1) deny that it occurred; (2) disparage, ridicule, and dismiss "us" as mere children when "we" respond with the truth about it... after "you" bring it up; and (3) ask... indeed, sometimes demand... that "WE" not think about, either, let alone discuss it. Even though it's apparently totally okay for "you" to... ummmmm... "innocently"(?)... bring it up and/or discuss it.
Again, I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
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mrsjones5
Public swimming pools in some black neighborhoods are about as easy to find as super markets.
I'm not much of a swimmer myself. My mother took us to swimming lessons when I was a kid, partly because of my brother's drowning accident which left him mentally and physically impared, but she quickly got bored of taking us and I never got passed the level of beginner. I admit that I've dropped the ball on making sure that my own children know how to swim but I plan to rectify that. I also plan on taking lessons myself, one of the reasons why I've let my hair go natural and I haven't put a relaxer back in my daughter's hair. Pool chemicals are a bitch for hair that's been chemically treated and will break it off.