Gog and Magog - Ezekiel Chapters 38 and 39

by UnDisfellowshipped 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • UnDisfellowshipped

    The War of Gog of Magog (From Ezekiel Chapters 38 and 39)

    The Watchtower Society teaches that Gog is another name for Satan the Devil, and Magog, Persia, Sudan, Lybia, Meschech, Tubal, Beth-Togarmah are all just "symbolic" names for all of the nations of the earth that Satan will use to attack Jehovah's Witnesses at the battle of Armageddon.

    However, since most of the other prophecies in Ezekiel were taken literally, why should this one be symbolic?

    What are your thoughts on this prophecy?

    Several scholars believe that the land of "Magog" refers to Russia, and Persia is definitely Iran. Ancient "Ethiopia" is modern Sudan according to some experts.

    Most scholars believe Beth-Togarmah is the modern nation of Turkey.

    The prophecy foretells that Gog, the "Prince" of the land of Magog (Russia?), will gather together the armies of Iran, Lybia, Sudan, and Turkey to make a gigantic attack and invasion of Israel.

    The only nations which will protest are "Sheba and Dedan" (some experts say Saudi Arabia) and Tarshish and its "young lions" (some people think Tarshish is Spain, while others believe it is Britain and the young lions include the United States).

    I think there are some very interesting "coincidences" developing in the Middle East right now that seem to lining up with this ancient prophecy.

    What do you think?

    Has anyone here ever studied this prophecy in-depth?

  • Psychotic Parrot
    Psychotic Parrot

    I think 'coincidences' is the right word. Looking at the prophecy exegetically, it was written for people of the 1st century, it has no real relevence to the world of today. Magog probably wasn't Russia though, but i'm not sure about that one.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    You're correct. Keep in mind that at the time the foundational doctrine was being developed by Russell and Rutherford, the state of Israel did not exist. Judah had not returned to its ancestral homeland. That meant (since Armegeddon was imminent) that Gog had to be symbolic of Satan and Judah symbolic for the church, etc. And like wet cement, by the time Israel was formed as a nation, that that foundational doctrine had hardened. The leadership couldn't, in 1948, have said, "Ooops, we were wrong! Maybe we should have taken it literally." Gog is no more symbolic than Cyrus was, and the Lord actually addresses Gog as if he were present, yet he was in the future.

    The Witnesses also are wrong about 1914 being the date that Satan was cast out of heaven. Satan and his angels were cast out in the beginning, before the world was, and that's why the disciples of Jesus were casting them out of people in the Meridian of Time. God placed emnity between Man and the Serpent (Satan) when Adam was cast out, for Satan had already been cast out. In one apocraphal document, Satan actually curses Adam, saying that he (Adam) was responsible for him (Satan) being cast down to Earth and losing his home in heaven -- and that was not in 1914!

    The JWs base much of their legitimacy on the tired dogma of "If not us, who?" By that they mean if they aren't God's earthly organization, then who else could it be? Who else doesn't celebrate birthdays? Who else doesn't wear uniforms? Who else is on a first-name basis with the Creator? Who else knows about 1914? It must be us, they say. We win by default.

    Gog is the same as the Beast in Revelation. He also appears in Zachariah 12 and 14. He will lead the nations against Jerusalem -- the real Jerusalem, and yes, Jehovah will actually come to the Mount of Olives, where the Jews will see the wounds in his hands and feet and say, "What are these wounds...." Then they will know that Jehovah and Jesus were one and the same, and that their fathers crucified him. That's why there will be a great lamentation. But the Witnesses are wrong thinking that Jehovah is the Father. They're also wrong about 1914, and they're wrong about Gog and Jerusalem. Finally, they're just as much of a manmade religion as any other. Russell and Rutherford had no visitations. Neither saw an angel or had a vision; neither were commanded to begin a church. In fact, they were presumptuous, presuming that which they had no authority.

    I don't personally believe someone will be damned because of their eschatology, but Witnesses need to get with the program and recognize that some of their doctrines are...what's the word? Oh, yeah, wrong! They can continue to spout the stuff they believe, but if they're honest about recognizing that Old Testament prophecies are always literal. When God says Magog, he actually means Magog. And Persia and Jerusalem and Judah and everything else. And if they persist, ask them to show you one prophecy that's spiritual, and which had spiritual fulfillment. Like Isaiah 53, anyone can read it and see Christ. And only when Gog appears in the Middle East will they see fulfillment of Armegeddon and not a moment before.

  • freydo

    For the benefit of those of you who cannot resist in your willful ignorance in labeling Russell's teaching with Rutherford's here is what Br Russell foretold.

    "The Time of Jacob's Trouble" <PAGE 553> VOLUME4

    "While the trouble and distress of this day of the Lord will be first and specially upon Christendom, and eventually upon all nations, the final blast, we are informed by the Prophet `Ezekiel (38:8-12)`, will be upon the people of Israel regathered in Palestine. The prophet seems to indicate a much larger gathering of Israel to Palestine within this harvest period than has yet taken place. He represents them as gathered there out of the nations in great numbers, and, with considerable wealth, inhabiting the formerly desolate places; and all of them dwelling safely at the time when the rest of the world is in its wildest commotion. `Ezek. 38:11,12`

    All men are witnesses to the fact that such a gathering of Israel to Palestine is begun, but it is quite manifest that their exodus from other lands will have to receive some great and sudden impulse in order to accomplish this prophecy within the appointed time. Just what that impulse will be remains yet to be seen; but, that it will surely come is further indicated by the words of the Prophet `Jeremiah--16:14-17,21`.

    "Behold the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but the Lord liveth that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north [Russia?], and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. Behold I will send for many fishers, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. For mine eyes are upon all their ways; they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes...I will cause them to know my hand and might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah."

    That the Lord is abundantly able to accomplish this we have no doubt. In every nation the question, "What shall be done with the Jew?" is a perplexing one, which, in some crisis of the near future brought about suddenly by the Lord's overruling providence, will doubtless lead, as indicated by the prophet, to some concerted action on the <PAGE 554> part of the nations for promptly conveying them to the land of promise. And, as they went out of Egypt in haste, with their cattle and goods, and aided by the Egyptians who said, "Rise up and get you forth from among my people,...also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone"; and as the Lord gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they gave them whatsoever they required, of silver and gold and raiment (`Exod. 12:31-36`), so in the next exodus, foretold by the prophets, they will not be sent away empty, but apparently some pressure will suddenly be brought to bear upon the nations which will result thus favorably to Israel, so fulfilling the above prophecy of Ezekiel. This enterprising race, once re-established in the land of promise, and thus separated, for a time at least, from the distress of nations so prevalent everywhere else, will quickly adapt itself to the new situation, and the hitherto desolate places will again be inhabited.

    But yet one more wave of anguish must pass over that chastened people; for, according to the prophet, the final conflict of the battle of the great day will be in the land of Palestine. The comparative quiet and prosperity of regathered Israel near the end of this day of trouble, as well as their apparent defenseless condition, will by and by stimulate the jealousies of and invite their plunder by other peoples. And when law and order are swept away Israel will finally be besieged by hosts of merciless plunderers, designated by the prophet as the hosts of God and Magog (`Ezek. 38`), and great will be the distress of defenseless Israel. "Alas!" says the prophet Jeremiah, "for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it." `Jer. 30:7`

    As one man the hosts of Gog and Magog are represented as saying, "I will go up to the land of unwalled villages, I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them <PAGE 555> dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates." "Thou wilt go," says the prophet, "to take a spoil and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods and that dwell in the midst of the land." (`Ezek. 38:11-13`) The prophet foretelling these events as though addressing these hosts, says, "Thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts [Europe and Asia are north of Palestine], thou and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company and a mighty army: And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days [apparently the closing scene of the day of trouble], and I will bring thee against my land, that the nations may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee [set apart, distinguished as thy conqueror], O Gog, before their eyes." `Ezek. 38:15,16`

  • EndofMysteries

    The gog of magog and the one in revelation at the "end of the thousand years" are IDENTICAL! They are the SAME PROPHECY. So the real question then becomes................if the Gog of Magog in Ez is the end of the thousand year reign, are we approaching the end of this reign? Or is it about to begin?

    So many are much mistaken ;/

  • UnDisfellowshipped

    I disagree. I do not believe the Gog of the Land of Magog in Ezekiel is the same as Gog and Magog in Revelation.

    In Ezekiel it says Gog (a person) OF MAGOG (a land), and in Revelation, both Gog and Magog are names of NATIONS.

  • coachhanna

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