The was a time I thought I had a good argument for people who had faith in God's non-existence

by gubberningbody 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • gubberningbody

    I remember asking people the question...

    "Would you like to believe there's a Creator who cares about you?"

    This question would avoid any fact-based discussion, and instead we could discuss the heart of the matter that plays the key to how people connect the disparate dots.

    I thought there could be no moral reason for saying...

    "No, I don't want to believe that to be true."

    No one in fact really ever was able to deal with the question effectively.

    Fortunately or unfortunately as some may see it, I now have a good moral argument for saying...

    "No, I don't want to believe that to be true."

    The reason is that to accept the existence of a Creator who "cares" in the manner described by any religion, any "holy book" on planet earth would make me a monster in my own eyes.

    That dissonant realization means that I simply cannot and hope that to not be the case.

    If it is true, that is a real nightmare, because any God who "cares" for his "children" in the manner that all these souls, human and non-human alike have been "cared" for is a chimeric monster of pain and delight.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    There is really no argument for or against the factual status of matters of faith because they ARE matters of FAITH, not based on evidence.

    Is there something I would call God? To me there is. But I don't expect anyone to take my word for it any more than I expect them to take the word of versions of translations of copies of ancient spoken tales for it. If you want to find the divine you can only do so via revelation. It has nothing to do with science or even objective reality as we know it, and neither traditional nor authoritative statements about it cannot be trusted.

    Find it. Don't find it. It's most likely all the same.

  • MrFreeze

    I don't tell anybody to believe or not to believe in God. I don't expect anybody to tell me to believe in or to not believe in God. It's my choice. Nobody should force an ideal on anybody. Personally, I don't know if there is a God or not. Nothing anybody says either way will convince me so they shouldn't even bother to try.

  • gubberningbody

    God only exists as a babel of mind-mappings without any external referent.

    God serves as a place-holder for your own personal Jesus.

  • witnessdater

    Like my JW ex-girlfriend used to say (as a diversion from the real debate) "I have the right to believe and worship in any way I want." I'd laugh, "Of course you do hun, I never said you didn't. We are not having a debate about constitutional law here, I'm asking you if it makes sense that the self-professed channel of God's word to all earthlings has been wrong - thereby indicating that God lied to them."

    In the same light - what makes senses about God/no God? You can believe anything you like, sure it is your choice. But what makes logical sense? The atheist's argument is that the universe was simply always here and was not created. That implies infinite time backwards, time had no starting point. But if that were true, we could have never arrived at this point in time, time itself would be sucked into the negative. The Big Bang Theory was a huge setback for atheists, they do not like to talk about it. Because it says that at the beginning of time there was a singularity of all matter and force, and at the instant before that, there was literally nothing, not even time. Since the natural laws we have say that something cannot be created from nothing, this implies intelligent and supernatural creation by an uncreated being - God.

    The real faith comes in where we are asked to believe that the Bible revealed that creator. But it isn't too difficult when you consider the number of prophecies from the OT becoming fulfilled in the NT. I also know of no other "religion" where their leader even claimed to be God.

    On the "How can God deal out so much pain" argument, I don't think he does. I think we do. Another way of looking at this is to read about children with a disease called CIPA, who can not feel any physical pain, and therefore cannot learn from that pain. Their parents' sole prayer is that one day their children will be able to feel pain.


  • witnessdater

    And if logical thought should not be the basis of thougth for all of this, what should? Are some of you saying that life is meaningless?

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