Can the Appointed Times of the Nations be calculated?

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  • wannabe

    Can the Appointed Times of the Nations be calculated?

    Was one to ask me today, for my interpretation, of Lukes words at Luke 21:24 I would have to tell them I do not agree with the Governing Bodies Watchtowers Societies intrepretation of it because I feel their reasoning is seriously flawed. One needs to ask himself, which Jerusalem was Luke making reference to here, and what was it that actually constituted the trampling, and how long has it really been going on? This Trampling doesn't denote anything good, as one dictionary definition explains it: "

    To treat harshly or ruthlessly." So this Jerusalem is being treated harshly, and ruthlessly, by receiving this trampling.

    As for the Jerusalem in question my belief is, that can be determined by looking at Genesis 3:15, as follows:

    "And I shall put enmity between you and the WOMAN and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel." {Genesis 3:15 NWT}

    Notice! We have two seeds! The seed of satan! The seed of the Woman! Because of this Prophecy, all down through the Centuries a hatred would be manifested between these two seeds; but the primary seed was the Christ. satan would, at the crucifiction of Christ bruise him in the heel. It should be mentioned at this point, that when the Christ was crucified the Trampling on Heavenly New Jerusalem began, being as Jesus was representative King of the Jerusalem above. While much later the Christ would cast satan into the lake of fire destroying him forever. {Galatians 3:16} {Revelation 20:10}

    Lets look now at who this Woman is:

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    And a great sign was seen in heaven, a Woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars, 2 and she was pregnant. And she cries out in her pains and in her agony to give birth. 3 And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; 4 and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child. " {Revelation 12:1-17 NWT}

    This is the time period, when the composite sign of the Christ will appear; this sign would picture the labor pains of the pregnant Heavenly Woman. Made up of a series of events foretold for the last Days. Escalating in intensity until the heavenly Woman finally gave birth to the Man Child. {Matthew 24- Mark 13 - Luke 21 - It would occur over a long period of time. Not exactly on the year 1914 , because even yet it hasn't occured. Is still an event for the future. That of course is clearly obvious.

    We notice the foretold enmity is still going on while God's Kingdom is being born. For we see satan standing before the Woman waiting to devour her child. We know that Jesus warned even at that time his followers would be hated and killed, on a World-Wide scale.

    9 "Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers."{Matthew 24:9 NLT} Keep in mind Jesus was the main principle seed of the Woman in Genesis 3:15. His followers too, the seed of the Woman. The foretold enmity or hatred going on, while the sign of the coming of Christ is going on.

    We know that this is the Woman of Genesis 3:15 because of these following words in verse 17 of Chapter Twelve of the Revelation showing the foretold enmity, between satan and the Woman, and his great anger towards her, and her seed.

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    "And the dragon grew wrathful at the Woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus." {Revelatiobn 12:17 NWT} Notice satan's hatred for the Woman and her seed. I should mention here that the remaining ones of this Heavenly Woman's seed are of two classes. One of the Heavenly High Calling, who inherit immortality in the Spirit Realm to reign as King Priests with the Christ, the other, of course the earthly class with the hope of everlasting life on this earth. {Psalm 37:11,29}These ones, as John has told us, have the work of bearing witness to Jesus, which work incurs satan's great hatred. As well as his seeds towards the seed of the Woman. So, when satan is thrown down to this earth, the age old hatred erupts again and continues on.

    So, right up until the time for God's Kingdom to come we have satan displaying his hatred for the Woman and her seed. This may sound strange in that the Israelite Nation was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah, hence his favored people, but they were an unfaithful nation; hence had to be corrected many times by Jehovah's Prophets sent to them. They were in point of fact the seed of satan the devil; that's how bad it bacame. Through their behavior they reached a point of no return, no healing.

    "And Jehovah the God of their forefathers kept sending against them by means of his messengers, sending again and again, because he felt compassion for his people and for his dwelling. 16 But they were continually making jest at the messengers of the [true] God and despising his words and mocking at his prophets, until the rage of Jehovah came up against his people, until there was no healing." {2 Chronicles 36:15,16 NWT} So, they had gone too far, and Jehovah had run out of patience with them. Jesus as much told them, that they were actually Children of the devil, the seed of satan. This Worlds Christian's needs to take these words to heart, because you can push Jehovah just so far, and no further. As it occured with the Israelite Nation, a point of no healing can be reached for all of them as well. They too could end up as Jesus described those early Jews; "Serpents!" "Off-spring of vipers!"

    "Serpents, offspring of vipers,

    how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen´na? 34 For this reason, here I am sending forth to YOU prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them YOU will kill and impale, and some of them YOU will scourge in YOUR synagogues and persecute from city to city; 35 that there may come upon YOU all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·ri´ah son of Bar·a·chi´ah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to YOU, All these things will come upon this generation. " {Matthew 23:33-35 NWT}

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    "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. 38 Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU. 39 For I say to YOU, YOU will by no means see me from henceforth until YOU say, ‘Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name!’" {Matthew 23:37,38 NWT} {Luke 19:41-44}

    Anyone reading the words of Jesus here will see Jerusalem itself made up of its people were not trampled on; they were themselves the Tramplers on Jerusalem. These Prophets, wise men and instructors that were sent forth that were killed, scourged, in their synagogues and persecuted, were the seed of the Woman that was in conflict with the seed of the devil, because of the foretold enmity. The Jewish Nation had reverted over to the seed of satan the devil, and right up until the time of Christ in 29CE would persecute and murder, the seed of the Woman. Fulfilling the prophecy at Genesis 3:15. The first of the seed of the Woman was righteous Abel, who Cain, the seed of satan, murdered. With that murder beginning the trampling on earthly Jerusalem. This point is very important to remember. No one, I don't care who it is, can know the day date for Abel's murder; but whatever that dateBottom of Form 1 was, it marked the beginning of the appointed times of the Nations when that trampling first began. Abel was the seed of the Woman, which Woman represented the Jerusalem Luke Mentioned in the following:

    24" and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." {Luke 21:24 NWT}

    Being himself under the New Covenant, the only Jerusalem that Luke could possibly be making reference to, would be the Jerusalem above. {Galatians 4:26} Heavenly New Jerusalem. {Revelation 3:12;21:2,10} Which was the City of the living God. {Hebrews 12:18-24} When Luke made his satement, while it's true the seed of the Woman were made up of many faithful ones that were among the ancient Nation of Israel, Luke's focus now would have had to be on the Jerusalem above. Heavenly New Jerusalem. New Heavenly Mount Zion.The City of the Living God. {Revelation 14:1} This trampling on Jerusalem now, because of the New Covenant established on the blood of the Christ reverted over to Heavenly New Jerusalem. This particular trampling began with the crucifiction of the Christ and the foretold enmity or hatred was transfered over to the Christ and all of his first Century followers. Manifested by the murder of Stephen, and violent persection of all of the followers of the Christ, in the first Century. {Acts 7:51-60;8:1,2} Since the early Days of the Israelite Nation the seed of the Heavenly Woman has been put through a living Hell at the hands of the seed of satan the devil. One needs only read Paul's account in Hebrews Chaper 11 to verify that. They have literally been trampled under the feet of the seed of satan the devil for many Centuries. Since the murder of Righteous Abel. For the Governing Body of the Wathtower to teach that trampling only began in 607 BCE is an outright blatant insult to all of Jehovah's ancient faithful followers. Who were the ones who really experienced this Trampling on Jerusalem. Men like Noah, Moses, Lot, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Job King David and time would fail me to list them all. But Paul will follow up in Hebrews11.

    "Now this Ha´gar means Si´nai, a mountain in Arabia, and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." {Galatians 4:25,26}

    Notice! Paul said: "She is OUR Mother!" He meant, Luke's Mother too. Which of course means, the free Woman who was the Jerusalem above. So, when Luke made his statement in Luke 21:24 about the appointed times of the Nations, he was making reference to, not only the ancient City of Jerusalem, and the two seeds in among them he was also referring to the Jerusalem above, and the two opposing seeds among them. We know that this is the Woman of Genesis 3:15 because of these following words in verse 17 of Chapter Twelve of the Revelation:

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    "And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus." {Revelation 12:17 NWT} We observe here the foretold enmity between the Woman, her seed, and satan the devil.

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    That is the Jerusalem that was receiving the trampling on by the Nations until they were fulfilled. Now just who is it that is responsible for that trampling on New Heavenly Jerusalem, the Jerusalem above right now, today? I'll direct attention now back to Genesis 3:15 and ask you to look closely at that prophecy, because it is a key scripture in gaining a proper understanding of this subject. Notice again what is stated there:

    "And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel." {Genesis3:15 NWT}

    It is not directly stated there, that Two Women are involved, does it, but how do we know that there are? One Woman is mentioned that produces a seed. So, it would follow satan also having a seed would also have to have a Woman behind the production of his seed. I feel that, that, is a fairly reasonable assumption. With of course scriptural support.

    It might pay to mention that Jehovah likened the Israelite Nation as to being his Wife, himself their husbandly owner. As we see from the following words of Isaiah the Prophet:

    "For your Grand Maker is your husbandly owner, Jehovah of armies being his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Repurchaser. The God of the whole earth he will be called. 6 For Jehovah called you as if you were a wife left entirely and hurt in spirit, and as a wife of the time of youth who was then rejected," your God has said." {Isaiah 54:5,6 NWT} So, you could say, Ancient Israel was Jehovah's Woman, but earthly. As I've already pointed out the Israelite Nation had reverted over to the seed of satan the devil, and as a result, had become satan's Woman, as described by Ezekiel the Prophet:

    "So you kept making your prostitution abound toward the land of Ca´naan, toward the Chal·de´ans; and even in this you did not get satisfaction. 30 O how I am filled up with rage against you,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘by your doing all these things, the work of a woman, a domineering prostitute!" {Ezekiel 16:1-30 NWT}

    That entire Nation had become guilty of spiritual adultery; as Ezekiel and Jeremiah, identified them, a Woman, a domineering prostitute. Unfaithful Israel!

    "When I got to see that, for the very reason that unfaithful Israel had committed adultery, I sent her away and proceeded to give the certificate of her full divorce to her, yet treacherously dealing Judah her sister did not become afraid, but she herself also began to go and commit prostitution. 9 And her prostitution occurred because of [her] frivolous view, and she kept polluting the land and committing adultery with stones and with trees; 10 and even for all this her treacherous sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, only falsely,’ is the utterance of Jehovah." {Jeremiah 3:8 NWT} This Woman now was a dirty Woman belonging to satan the devil, for what other type Woman could we expect from him? The Liar and the Father of the lie! {John 8:44} Keep this expression Domineering Prostitute in mind, I'll focus on that a little later on.

    Look now at the change brought about by the established New Covenant, how Jehovah's Heavenly Woman takes on a completely new appearance from that of unfaithful adulteress Israel's appearance of a domineering adulteress Prostitute, to that of a beautiful Chaste Virgin. Jehovah's new Heavenly Woman.

    "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. " {Revelation 21:1-3 NWT} This New Woman belonging to Jehovah is more than just beautiful, she is the very personification of beauty in Jehovah's eyes. This Woman is the Bride of Christ. Made up of Men and Women who have proved themselves faithful to death, to uphold the truth of God's Word the Bible. All, just like their Master, are World conquerers. {John 16:33} They could all say as did Jesus, we have conquered the World. Notice how Paul refers to these ones, one of which, he was himself:

    "For I am jealous over YOU with a godly jealousy, for I personally promised YOU in marriage to one husband that I might present YOU as a chaste virgin to the Christ." {2 Corinthians 11:2 NWT}

    This of course was the Bride of Christ. All chosen by the Father, for his Son. For that reason you know absolutely they are the very best of the best to rule with the Christ for the thousand year period. {Revelation 5:9,10; 20:4} Let us now look at satan's Woman John mentions in the Revelation account, and learn just who it is who is representative of her:

    And one of the seven angels that had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying: "Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication." 3 And he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit into a wilderness. And I caught sight of a Woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and was adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls and had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her fornication. 5 And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery: "Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth." 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. Notice how much control the great harlot has over those who inhabit the earth, and what her effect she has over them. All of them are spiritual drunkards. Of course the Pope is only a part of Babylon the Great, but talk about being adorned with Gold! They say the Pope has so many Billions of Dollars, it cannot be reasonably assessed. Of course he's the Vicar of Christ he will tell you, but the Christ had nowhere to even lay down his head.

    "Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth." {Revelation 18:24 NWT} Now connect these words penned by John with words spoken by Jesus to those early Jews:

    "Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen´na? 34 For this reason, here I am sending forth to YOU prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them YOU will kill and impale, and some of them YOU will scourge in YOUR synagogues and persecute from city to city; 35 that there may come upon YOU all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·ri´ah son of Bar·a·chi´ah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to YOU, All these things will come upon this generation." {Matthew 23:33-36 NWT}

    "The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues." {Revelation 17:15 NWT}

    So, these Peoples and crowds and Nations and Tongues where this great Harlot is sitting, today take the place of the Israelite Nation, who so brutaly murdered the Christ, stoned Stephen to death, killed James, and persecuted the followers of the Christ in the first Century. So, we're looking at now, the entire empire of Blood-Guilty Religious Christendom as the ones doing the trampling on Jerusalem. Only this trampling now, is being done on the Jerusalem above, Heavenly New Jerusalem, the City of the living God. This Trampling began with the crucifiction of the Christ, carried over to the stoning of stephen the murder of James the Persecution of the Christian's under the New Covenant. In that no one knows just how long this trampling will go on because it is still in progress right at this present moment in time they cannot know its length, or when it will end. So, this Trampling did not begin in 607 BCE. Nor did it run for 2,520 years. Did not end in 1914. Which of course means the Christ was not invisibly present in the year 1914, because the appointed times of the Nations did not end in that year at all. Something else it means, is, the seven time prophecy in Daniel 4:16 had absolutely nothing to do with the appointed times of the Nations. That Prophecy was merely talking about the loss and restoration of Kingdoms. Nebuchadnezzers after seven times passed over him, which of course was fulfilled.

    Jehovah's Kingship would come into being, by his heavenly Woman displaying only her labor pains in 1914, which pains were pictured by the composite sign of the coming of Christ into Kingdom power,only just beggining. Before the Kingdom would actually come, the entire sign had to be in evidence, but even when it was the kingdom would only be near, not here even then. {Matthew 24:32,33} {Luke 21:28-31}That sign is still going on right now. Only when the Christ actually begins to exercise his authority as king, and, if you will, brings the hammer down on Satan's world-wide system of things, wiping it out in total will the appointed times of the Nations be fulfilled, and the Trampling on New Jerusalem end conclusively. {Revelation 12:10 - The Appointed Times of the Nations and the Trampling on New Jerusalem could never end while satan's sytem of things is still operational and right now, its running at full tilt. Fat flourishing and healthy!

    But you cannot calculate the appointed times of the Nations, know how long they will run, or know when they will end, because no one knows the day-date Cain killed Abel, and that would be the starting point to count the length of the appointed times of the Nations coupled with that no one knows, or could possibly ever know, the exact day and hour for divine intervention, and that is the only time they could end. It would be of necessity to know those two dates, because without knowing them no one could ever possibly count the length of time the appointed times of the Nations will run. We do not know when at what Date they began! We do not know how long they will run, because they are still now running. We do not know the date they will end. We only know the event that will bring them to their end.As for this expression: "Domineering Prostitute."

    Consider the stand taken by the Pope, as to being Almighty God on earth. The judge of heaven and earth. The vicar or representative of the Christ. Imagine claiming the position as judge of heaven and earth when Jehovah himself has allotted that position solely to the Christ, and his Anointed Brothers. That's a stretch and a half, isn't it? Of course they must be called Father or Holy Father or get this Jehovah's Position, Most Holy Father. Or Reverend right Reverend, Most Reverend.{John 5:22} {Revelation 20:4} As for God Almighty, the Pope and all of the Clergy, no differrent; Then of course their special garb that sets them above the laity in their congreagtions. How's that for domineering prostitute? You couldn't get any better. Arrogance personified. A description that fits them all right down to the ground. It works out like this, in this case, the Higher you exalt yourself the longer the drop to the ground when Jehovah brings them all down, and he surely will bring them all down, according to Isaiah the Prophet. {Isaiah Chapter Two.}The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses will tell us that aside from them no one understands the Bible. That's funny! I'm not associated with them and I don't have any problem understanding the Bible. Wonder what's going on here?

    Claiming that they, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones who understand the Bible, because only their Organization is Spirit Directed, they make fools out of themselves, because their Spirt Direction is somewhat lacking, wouldn't you think? It's been leading them on a path of errror for 130 years with failed predictions false prophecies and very poorly set forth interpretations of the the Scriptures. The Book they claim no one else understands they don't uderstand themselves. They tell us, that the Appointed Times of the Nations began running in 607 BCE. That's wrong! They tell us they ran for a period of 2,520 years. That's Wrong! They tell us they ended in 1914. That also is wrong. They tell us the appointed times of the Nations ended in the year 1914. That's wrong. In their Book: "You can live forever in paradise on earth on page 141 Paragraph 21 they tell us: "This means that Jesus Christ began to rule as King of God's Heavenly Government in 1914. ... "the Kingdom has already started its rule!" Quite obviously that is also wrong. We're 96 years away from the year 1914.

    Was what they say to be true, this entire system of things by now would be toast; but everything continues as usual. Think for a moment about what the Governing Body tells us about the year 607 BCE and forward, because what they lay claim to about the Christ arrival in Kingdom power in the year 1914 actually as they say, he's already ruling. Without actually coming right out and saying it, in telling us he's already ruling, they are, probably without being consciously aware of it, telling us they know the Day and Hour, because that only occurs when the Christ actually does begin his active rule, as King of God's Kingdom. So, they have made a major goof-up in playing with Daniels time prophecy on the seven times, but just don't know that they have. Goof-up's they must be quite used to by now. After one Hundred and thirty some odd years of them, it's old hat by nowWannabe.

    They are all drunk with the wine of her fornication, and with the Blood of the Witnesses of Jesus. Who was it right up until the appearance of the Christ that killed and stoned the Prophets and those sent forth to her? Who murdered the Christ and stoned Stephen to death? Who visciously persecuted the followers of the Christ? It was a Religious Organization was it not? Who killed the Holy ones and witnesses of Jesus? Ones that professed to be God's Favored people, but was a blatant lie. It was devil led! Because this Woman of John's Revelation is called a great City with a Kingdom over the Kings of the earth, is the fact that World -Wide this Religious Woman is in control of the masses of mankind. While she sits on these many waters representative of people. John further clarifies just who this Woman is in verse 24 of Revelation 18 where we are told the following:

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    I never understood what appointed times of the nations meant. Never got prophesy.

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