Quiz Show (Bible Contradictions)

by darth frosty 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • darth frosty
  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    At the 8:40 mark when he ask the question how did judas die by hanging himself or falling off the cliff and bursting his mid section on the rocks made me think of the dub answer.

    The dubs say 'evidently' judas threw a rope on a tree and tried to hang himself but the tree branch broke and he fell and burst upon the rocks.

    Good ole 'evidently' saves the day again.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    There is no reference to falling, rope, tree branch, or a cliff in the Judas story in the NT.

    The two stories have different exegetical foundations and they were harmonized in a bewildering array of ways by later exegetes. See: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/116729/1/The-Evolution-of-Judas-Iscariot.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Leolaia There is no reference to falling, rope, tree branch, or a cliff in the Judas story in the NT.

    How else does one hang oneself without a rope and falling? Anyhow, point taken :)

    I watched the vid. Of course, this case in point just goes to prove how some like to find "discrepancies" in the bible.

    Matthew 27:5 (English Standard Version)

    5 And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he departed, and he went and hanged himself.

    Acts 1:18 (English Standard Version)

    18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.

    Of course, there is nothing to say that both these statements aren't correct. Maybe the author of the video would likely have been better off with a good study bible :)

    ESV Study Bible

    Acts 1:18 this man acquired a field. That is, the field was acquired indirectly by Judas, through the agency of the chief priests. As Matt. 27:3–7 records, Judas brought the 30 pieces of silver back to the chief priests and elders. The chief priests then purchased the potter's field with Judas's money, with the same effect as if Judas had himself made the purchase. he burst open. The two accounts of Judas's death are complementary retellings of the same event, each focusing in different ways on the same details. Both accounts involve: Judas's remorse, the purchase of a field with his ill-gotten money, its reputation as “the Field of Blood,” and Judas's gory death (for the location of “the Field of Blood,” see note on Matt. 27:7–8). The main difference is that Matt. 27:5 speaks of Judas hanging himself, while Acts speaks of his body falling headlong and bursting open with all his entrails spilling out. One possible explanation suggests that the field overlooked a cliff, and as Judas hanged himself, the rope (or the branch) may have broken, with his body falling headlong over the edge of the cliff onto jagged rocks below. Others have suggested that Judas's body may have remained hanging for some time decaying and decomposing (“swelling up,” esv footnote), eventually falling to the ground and bursting open in its decomposed condition. In either case, there is no reason to see the two accounts as contradictory, since they focus on complementary details of the same event. In both accounts the effect of Satan's control over Judas's life is clear, demonstrating the general principle that Satan brings total destruction and disgrace to the person who comes under his control, for “he was a murderer from the beginning” (John 8:44).

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    THing is if you hang yourself you are more than likely in a verticle position with your head at the top. The other account says falling headlong (I take that to mean head first.)

    If he tried to hang himself how did he fall head first? And of course the biggest question of them all...who was there to give a first hand account of what happened? Are we relying on a 1st century CSI for what happened?

  • stillin
    stillin

    stupid Judas couldn't do anything right

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    How else does one hang oneself without a rope and falling?

    LOL, true. I suppose I should have said that there is nothing in Matthew about the rope snapping and Judas falling, and nothing in Acts about a rope, hanging, and falling per se.

    while Acts speaks of his body falling headlong and bursting open with all his entrails spilling out.

    But that's not the actual wording. "Falling headlong" is given by later interpreters. The text as it is says "becoming headlong". And that may well be corrupt ("becoming swollen" is what the text possibly said originally).

    Others have suggested that Judas's body may have remained hanging for some time decaying and decomposing (“swelling up,” esv footnote), eventually falling to the ground and bursting open in its decomposed condition.

    Notice that this harmonistic scenario draws on both variants "becoming swollen" and "becoming headlong" (interpreted as falling) and combines them. But only one of these was original to Acts; it did not have both. The oldest independent reference to Judas becoming swollen in Papias is clearly cognate to the story in Acts (drawing on the same OT intertexts as the Lukan story) and has absolutely no reference to a hanging. Papias wrote at a time prior to the harmonization of the two accounts in Matthew and Acts.

    If he tried to hang himself how did he fall head first?

    Yeah that is a good point.

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