Unbelievers in the pulpit are exposed

by moshe 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • moshe
    moshe

    I just read a short story about Clergy who keep preaching even though they have become unbelievers- it's called play acting for dollars.

    http://www.tmatt.net/2010/05/10/voices-of-unbelievers-in-pulpits/

    "On Sunday mornings, you will find him leading hymns in one of the independent Church of Christ congregations somewhere in South Carolina.

    Call him "Adam." He is a church administrator, a "worship minister" and a self-proclaimed "atheist agnostic." That last detail is a secret. After all, his wife and teen-aged children are devout believers and he needs to stay employed.

    "Here's how I'm handling my job. ... I see it as playacting. I kind of see myself as taking on a role of a believer in a worship service, and performing," he said, during an interview for the "Preachers who are not Believers (.pdf)" report from the Center for Cognitive Studies at Tufts University.

    "I know how to pray publicly. I can lead singing. I love singing. I don't believe what I'm saying anymore in some of these songs. But I see it as taking on the role and performing. Maybe that's what it takes for me to get myself through this, but that's what I'm doing."

    The researchers behind this report do not claim they can document whether this phenomenon is rare or common. What they have right now is anecdotal material drawn from confidential interviews with five male Protestant ministers - three in liberal denominations and two from flocks that, as a rule, are conservative. An ordained Episcopal Church woman was interviewed, but withdrew just before publication.

    The authors of the report are philosopher Daniel C. Dennett, an outspoken leader in the movement many call the "New Atheism," and Linda LaScola, a clinical social worker with years of qualitative research experience. She is also an atheist, but, until recently, was a regular churchgoer.

    "We started with a pilot study because this is very new ground," said LaScola, who conducted the interviews. "We are planning to do a larger study in the future."

    The key is circulating this early material and then finding more ministers who are willing to be interviewed. The initial participants were found through contacts with the Center For Progressive Christianity and the Freedom from Religion Foundation. As this report candidly states: "Our sample is small and self-selected, and it is not surprising that all of our pastors think that they are the tip of an iceberg, but they are also utterly unable to confirm this belief."

    What unites these ministers is their isolation from the believers in their pews, their awareness that they cannot honestly discuss their doubts and evolving beliefs. They also struggle with labels such as "atheist" or "agnostic," often insisting that they remain believers of some kind - although they reject Christian doctrines or even theism.

    This tension, the authors stressed, is "no accident" in these postmodern times.

    "The ambiguity about who is a believer and who a nonbeliever follows inexorably from the pluralism that has been assiduously fostered by many religious leaders for a century and more: God is many different things to different people, and since we can't know if one of these conceptions is the right one, we should honor them all," noted Dennett and LaScola. "This counsel of tolerance creates a gentle fog that shrouds the question of belief in God in so much indeterminacy that if asked whether they believed in God, many people could sincerely say that they don't know what they are being asked."

    More than anything else, the report offers a striking mix of voices and motives.

    "Darryl" the Presbyterian still calls himself a "Jesus Follower," but adds: "I reject the virgin birth. I reject substitutionary atonement. I reject the divinity of Jesus. I reject heaven and hell in the traditional sense, and I am not alone."

    There's "Wes" the United Methodist: "I think the word God can be used very expressively in some of my more meditative modes. I've thought of God as a kind of poetry that's written by human beings."

    A retired United Church of Christ pastor, "Rick," has learned to add this subtle disclaimer when reciting creeds: "Let us remember our forefathers and mothers in the faith who said, ‘dot, dot, dot, dot'."

    "Jack" the Southern Baptist has concluded that the "grand scheme of Christianity, for me, is a bunch of bunk." Thus, he is quietly planning a new career.

    "If somebody said, ‘Here's $200,000,' I'd be turning my notice in this week, saying, ‘A month from now is my last Sunday.' Because then I can pay off everything."

    --------------------

    I suspect we have those play actors hiding at Bethel, too. Some of the recent WatchTower articles seem to have hidden messages, almost like disclaimers, that tell JW's the message I wrote is from failable men, not Jehovah, follow at your own risk, etc. How many times do JW's have to be told , "we are making an adjustment to our past teaching (1914 generation) , before they get the idea, "Oh, it's just men who write this stuff, I don't have to obey it, if I don't want to obey it"

  • blondie
  • moshe
    moshe

    http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP08122150.pdf This is where the story came from- interesting reading- Here is just one person's story--

    -Choosing the Christian Tradition
    When asked about how his classmates reacted to learning the details of Christian history, he said:
    Well, they sat through the same Old Testament courses I did, and half of them were fighting against it the whole way. Because they didn't like the scholarship, they couldn't --- it was a challenge to their faith. Well, I didn't have to deal with that; because I wanted to know what it was. They felt threatened; they pulled back. ...they would fight the professor about his interpretation about Old Testament passages. They were kind of literalistic about it. And when we'd talk about myth and stories, they'd say, "No, it happened!" So there was kind of a clash. They didn't like to have their literalistic interpretation of the Bible undermined by an Old Testament scholar. It was quite a thing to see!
    Still, Rick identifies strongly as a Christian:
    These are my people, this is the context in which I work, these are the people that I know. These are the communities I've worked with. These are the communities where I can make a difference.
    While he does not believe "all this creedal stuff" about Jesus dying for our sins, being God or being incarnate, he is attracted to Jesus as "...somebody who was concerned about social justice" and "...a compelling vision of what it means to be human, and what it means to --- live life fully in the world." He acknowledges that:
    ...if I'd been born in China, I'd be a Buddhist. I wasn't. I was born here, and I was formed here.... I do not see the passion for social justice in the Buddha. Jesus was born a poor peasant, and worked with the poor, and talked about the poor.
    According to Rick, his UCC ordination does not require taking vows. He made "a statement of faith," which meant presenting a paper to clergy in his Conference (i.e., the association of local churches). His paper was on liberal scholars Paul Tillich and Rudolf Bultmann. This was adequate, he says, because:
    ...as long as ... you're talking about God and Jesus and the Bible, that's what they want to hear. You're just phrasing it in a way that makes sense to [them] ... but language is ambiguous and can be heard in different ways."

  • nancy drew
    nancy drew

    Moshe, this is off the topic but I've been meaning to mention that everytime I see your post I have a warm feeling for Jack Benny as a kid growing up in the 1950's we watched his show all the time He had the best sense of humor always 39 and the expressions on his face always made me laugh.

  • JWoods
    JWoods

    I have long thought that most of the TV evangalist types fall into this category - doing it just for the money and the fame.

  • moshe
    moshe
    -I have a warm feeling for Jack Benny as a kid growing up in the 1950's we watched his show all the time He had the best sense of humor always 39 and the expressions on his face always made me laugh.

    Me too- his timing was always on the mark. I still watch some of his clips on Youtube. If only life today, was as uncomplicated as it was in the 50's.

    Yes, TV evangelists have to know their prayer cloths for a donation don't work, unless it has a placebo effect.

  • JimmyPage
    JimmyPage

    Hell, I can remember giving a talk at the KH and then celebrating Valentine's with a worldly girlfriend by staying the night at her place later that evening. I remember amusing myself about advising against smoking pot in a talk after having toked up within that past same month. For some people the stage does become a performance and a rush. If I ever have to get up on that stage again knowing what I know now you better bring your videocameras cuz what I say about the borg will be all over Youtube.

  • garyneal
    garyneal
    ...everytime I see your post I have a warm feeling for Jack Benny...

    Well, now I feel real stupid. I sincerely thought that avatar picture was really of Moshe. Did a quick Google image search on Jack Benny to confirm otherwise.

    Yeah, the part about the professor resonates with me a little bit too. I remember in college taking a class in philosophy and the professor their actually said that Adam and Eve were a myth. Shudders were heard in the classroom. This is in my hometown where I visited recently and on my last visit I noticed that the city has an unusually large number of Christians in that area. That explains a lot concerning my faith and how I arrived there and the fact that I knew so many Jehovah's Witnesses in the area.

    This philosophy professor also teaches the old testament at a Christian college in that town and he is not very well respected by the believers of that area. Especially when he wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper sometime back concerning the gay bishop of the episcopal church.

    We went down to my hometown for my brother's graduation from the community college and there was what amounted to a lot of preaching about the Bible from various people giving speeches during the commencement. All I kept thinking was, my poor brother, he's an atheist and he has to listen to this.

    Then there was the visit to my wife's home Kingdom Hall at that town. Boy that talk was all about how their religion was so true and all other religions are so false. I mean, I hear it at the KH my wife attends in Hampton Roads too but they were not nearly as dogmatic as the KH in Danville was.

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