Westcott and Hort

by Inkie 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • Inkie
    Inkie

    In consideration of how the Society views Johannes Greber and “his” New Testament, I wonder if the Society knows the following:

    Men such as Westcott and Hort (the two men that were responsible for the Critical Greek Text and the Revised English version in 1881) were themselves heretics that embraced the Gnostic doctrines and therefore had a hidden motive for creating a new Bible version. They were part of the Apostles Club, The Society for Psychical Research and the Ghost Society, the precursor of the SPR. Philip Schaff (the man responsible for the American Standard Version of 1901) also was a heretic and was the father of the Ecumenical Movement. His purpose was to create a Bible version that would further the merger of all religions and nations into a New World Order. George Schriver, in his biography, "PHILIP SCHAFF, CHRISTIAN SCHOLAR AND ECUMENICAL PROPHET", says "he was convinced that such an ECUMENICAL REVISION (of the Bible) would foster the bond of INTERDENOMINATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL UNION" (P. 71-73). * As cited in Gnosticism: The Mystery of Iniquity, by J. Moser

    In reading this, I clicked on the above link (for W & H) :

    http://www.seekgod.ca/print/biblepr/printchart.htm

    and got the following page (see “ yellow ” below):

    The Clapham Sect, The Ghost Society

    &

    The Word of God

    The Clapham Sect founded many missionary organizations including, "...The Church Missionary Society (1799), the British and Foreign Bible Society (1804), The Society for Bettering the Condition of the Poor (1796), The Society for the Reformation of Prison Discipline and many more." 40 Columbia Encyclopedia confirms their members founded the British and Foreign Bible Society in 1804. 41. "Christianity Through the Centuries," documents some of the organizations whose goals were to unite denominations, particularly with and for social action. This included the Bible Society of 1804, which the Clapham Sect founded. British & Foreign Bible Society ~1804~Founder was Lord Teignmouth of the Clapham sect.American Bible Society ~ 1816Y.M.C.A. in England ~ 1844, went to United States ~ 1851, furthered inter-denominational co-operation. John Mott, the founder, was a Freemason.Student Volunteer Movement ~ 1866, with Moody's aidThe Evangelical Foreign Missions Association & The Interdenominational Foreign Missions Association unites evangelicals, interdenominational & non-denominational boards. Federal Council of Churches of Christ in America ~1908, became National Council of the Churches of Christ ~ 1950 ~the goal was to have churches united and cooperate in social action, such as minimum wages, etc.Since 1867, Anglicans meet every ten years at the "Lambeth Conference". The World Alliance of Reformed Churches Holding the Presbyterian System ~ 1875, with first meeting in Edinburgh ~ 1877.The Evangelical Alliance, London ~ 1846, considered the 1st step in the ecumenical movement.*** National Council of the Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. is an agency of Protestant, Anglican, and Eastern Orthodox denominations that was formed in 1950 in the United States by the merger of 12 national interdenominational agencies. The National Council of Churches is the largest ecumenical body in the United States, with a membership of about 40 million in the late 20th century with the council's membership made up of 32 Protestant and Eastern Orthodox churches as full members, with more than 40 other church bodies, including conservative Protestants and Roman Catholics, participating in its programs. Its international counterpart is the World Council of Churches.Through these and various groups and meetings such as the first Lausanne Faith & Order Conference (1927) came The World Council of Churches. Click Image to see some of the growth of the World Ecumenical Movement. 42. Eugene A. Nida wrote in his book, "Bible Translations: An Analysis of Principles and Procedures, with Special Reference to Aboriginal Languages", that the revisers of the New Testament recommended the use of the Greek text edited for the British and Foreign Bible Society."For the New Testament, translators and revisers are recommended to follow the text of the original Greek edited for the British and Foreign Bible Society by Dr. Eberhard Nestle..." 43. Dr Eberhard Nestle was part of the revision committee for the translation of a new Greek New Testament, following the efforts of occultists Westcott and Hort. Barbara and Kurt Aland worked alongside Dr. Nestle."In 1898, Eberhard Nestle published the NESTLE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT, which underlies the modern versions. He followed the Hort and Westcott New Greek Text used for the English Revised Version and three other editions of the 1800’s. In 1950, Kurt Aland assumed ownership and the Nestle Text became the NESTLE/ALAND TEXT. The editing committee was comprised of Kurt Aland and Matthew Black, who were unbelievers, Roman Catholic Cardinal Carlo M. Martini and two apostates, Bruce Metzger and Alan Wikgren..."...Gail Riplinger observes, "Since both the Catholic and "New" Protestant bibles are now based on the identical critical Greek texts (UBS/Nestles), which are based on the same 1% minority Greek Manuscripts (Vaticanus B), the Catholic doctrinal bend in the NIV and NASB and other ‘New’ bibles is substantial." (37)..." 44.The Aland's and several others edited the book, The Greek New Testament, and stated:"Preface to the first edition... vii-ix. The project was initiated, organized and administered by Eugene A. Nida, who also took part in Committee discussions." pg ix"The [Editorial] Committee carried out its work in four principal stages: (i) on the basis of Westcott's and Hort's edition of the Greek New Testament a comparison was made of the text and apparatus of several other editions including those of Nestle, Bover, Merk, and Volgels, and to some extent those of Tischendorf and von Soden, in order to determine which of the variant readings warranted further study..."45. In other words, Eugene A. Nida and Dr. Eberhard Nestle were part of that same Revision Committee that collaborated to produce the corrupt text upon which mostnew Bible versions are based. The text they used had been originally edited for theBritish and Foreign Bible Society, founded by the Clapham Sect. From the article, A Chronology of American & English Revision, we can appreciate the significance of these associations."1851 - B.F. Westcott and F.J.A. Hort founded the Cambridge University Ghost Society, one of the early pioneers of modern Spiritualist inquiry as recorded by Alan Gould in The Founders of Psychical Research:"In 1851 was founded at Cambridge a Society to 'conduct a serious and earnest inquiry into the nature of the phenomena vaguely called supernatural,' and a number of distinguished persons became members." [Alan Gauld, The Founders of Psychical Research, NY:Schocken Books, 1968, p. 66]NOTE: The Cambridge Ghost Society was the parent of the Society For Psychical Research, [http://moebius.psy.ed.ac.uk/spr.html] according to The Society for Psychical Research: An Outline of its History: "Among the numerous persons and groups who in the middle of the nineteenth century were making enquiries into psychical occurrences may be mentioned a society from which our own can claim direct descent. In the Life of Edward White Benson, Archbishop of Canterbury, by his son, A. C. Benson, will be found, under the year 1851-2, the following paragraph:'Among my father's diversions at Cambridge was the foundation of a 'Ghost Society,' the forerunner of the Psychical Society [meaning the S.P.R.] for the investigation of the supernatural. Lightfoot, Westcott and Hort were among the members. He was then, as always, more interested in psychical phenomena than he cared to admit.' "Lightfoot and Westcott both became bishops, and Hort Professor of Divinity. The S.P.R. has hardly lived up to the standard of ecclesiastical eminence set by the parent society." [brackets in original] [W.H. Salter, The Society For Psychical Research: An Outline of its History, London, 1948, pp. 5,6]1853 - B.F.Westcott and F.J.A. Hort begin New Greek Testament in England....1858-9 - In England, Dr. Trench calls for a "better" revision that would "set aside the so-called Baptists" as revisers."The 'Edinburgh Review' and many similar periodicals took strong ground for its revision, and, in 1858, Dr. Trench, then Dean of Westminster, issued an elaborate treatise showing the imperfect state of the commonly received version, and the urgent need of its revision,... [Armitage, pp. 909-10]""...'The meeting of the New Testament Revisers was intensely interesting. Lightfoot, Westcott, Hort, Scrivener, Angus, Merivale, Eadie, David Brown, the Bishop of Gloucester...the Bishop of Salisbury and others were all there. No outsider is admitted except the Archbishop of Canterbury.'." The Cambridge Ghost Society has included such members as: B.F. Westcott, A. Barry; E.W. Benson, H. Bradshaw, Hon. A. Gordon, F.J.A. Hort, H. Luard, C.B. Scott, Gordon Gorham, Henry Sedgwick, Frederic Meyers, Edmund Gurney and Edward White Benson, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Raleigh.Two years after founding the Ghost Society, which was the precursor to the Society for Psychical Research, F.J.A. Hort and B. F. Westcott embarked on the "New Testament Scheme." Throughout their entire years involved in this Bible revision, they were immersed in various secret societies and political initiatives including the Hermes Club, Ghost Society, Company of Apostles, and Eranus, the Society for Psychical Research and the socialist Fabian Society, which founded the globalist London School of Economics and Political Science. 46. London School of Economics > See:The Clapham Sect & The Socialists In the articles, Taking the Name, the Mark & the Number-- Part 3: Taking the Number, mention is made of the denial of heaven and hell as places. Many not only deny the eternal concept of hell but reject the truth of any punishment for those who reject Christ."...It is noteworthy that many in "Christian" leadership denounce the existence of hell and heaven as "places". Bible reviser, B.F. Westcott wrote in 1886 to the Archbishop of Canterbury, "No doubt the language of the rubric is unguarded, but it saves us from the error of connecting the presence of Christ's glorified humanity with place: heaven is a state and not a place." For more on the discussion of heaven, hell and eternity, please see: Will God Say, "Just Kidding" About Eternity? Dr. Trench of the English Revision Committee was a member of the Apostles Club which agreed to a "conspiracy of silence.". The Apostles have included such notables as Henry Sidgwick, Frederic Myers, Edmund Gurney, Brook Foss Westcott, Fenton John Anthony Hort, Edward White Benson, Maurice, Alford, F. Washington, T. Taylor, James Spedding, Blakesley, Venables, Moncton Milnes, Doune, Lytton Strachey, Tennyson, Maynard Keynes, Hugh Sykes Davies and confirmed communists or spies, Guy Burgess, Kim Philby, Anthony Blunt, David Mcleon, Julian Bell, and Victor Rothschild.47. The S.P.R. was an offshoot of the Ghost Society. Henry Sidgwick, Frederic Myers, Edmund Gurney, Arthur and Gerald Balfour founded the Society for Psychical Research in 1882. Members have also included Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, James Webb, Eleanor Sidgwick, William Gladstone, Tennyson, Ruskin, Edmund Gurney, Frank Podmore, Frederick Meyers, Walter Leaf, William Crookes, Sir Oliver Lodge, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Edward Pease.The Evangelical Alliance of 1846 celebrated their 150th Anniversary in 1996. The Evangelical Alliance/ International Ministry for World Evangelism was incorporated as the World Evangelical Fellowship in 1951 and is the root of the missionary movement.An article entitled "From the Evangelical Alliance to the World Evangelical Fellowship: 150 years of unity with a mission." records in a footnote: "4. Minutes of the Proceedings of the Conference held at Freemasons' Hall, London, 1846." That the 1846 Conference, which formed the Evangelical Alliance, was held at Freemasons Hall is significant. Freemason Hall is the headquarters of The Grand Lodge of England, which is the source for International Freemasonry. >http://internet.lodge.org.uk/masonic/UGLE/history/third.html >The Grand Lodge appears to have influenced the United State's Masonic Founding Fathers in the establishment of the U.S. government. Its' Grand Masters have included, "HRH the Prince of Wales (later King George IV) was elected Grand Master of the premier Grand Lodge in 1790 and remained in office until 1813. For his Installation a new throne and Grand Warden's chairs were made, which remained in use until 1932 but are now used only for the Installation of a new Grand Master." 48The original Grand Lodge was built in 1717 and the present lodge is the third building on the same site with the dedication and purposes of the Hall being for Freemasonry."In 1768 the premier Grand Lodge took the momentous decision to build a Hall as its headquarters in London. A site was purchased in Great Queen Street, an architectural competition held, the Foundation Stone laid, and on 23 May 1776 the Hall was formally dedicated to the purposes of Freemasonry." 49.According to the author of Masonic Essays, in his MODERN FREEMASONRY EVOLVES""....One suggestion is that Freemasonry was invented by members of the four speculative lodges in London who joined to form the first Grand Lodge of England in 1717. Another suggestion that once received strong support perceives Freemasonry as a direct offshoot of the Rosicrucian movement....A well known example is the Hiramic legend relating to the untimely death of the architect during the construction of King Solomon's temple at Jerusalem. Although not detailed in the Old Testament, the narrative of the legend is ancient and many variations and amplifications of it are to be found in the Judaic apocrypha and the earliest Talmudic traditions....In 1736 four old Scottish operative lodges associated in the formation of the Grand Lodge of Scotland. The thirty-three lodges that met later in the same year and elected William St Clair, the Laird of Roslin, as the first Grand Master Mason of Scotland also were or had been operative lodges. This differs significantly from the formation of the first Grand Lodge in England by four speculative lodges, of which few if any of the members had been operative masons."

    "It would be appropriate now to consider the "de-Christianising of the Craft" often mentioned by masonic authors. Any Christian influence stemmed from the fact that, when purely speculative Freemasonry was being organised, Christianity was the only religion recognised in England. For centuries in England and on the Continent it had been the custom of the old crafts and guilds, including the masons, to have their patron saints on whose days festivals were held. Many ancient lodges held a festival on June 24, the summer solstice that had been a day of heathen rejoicing, but which in early Christian times became St John the Baptist's day. They also held a festival on December 27, the winter solstice which also had been a day of heathen rejoicing, but became St John the Evangelist's day. Although other saints were held in high regard by masons, including the Four Crowned Martyrs known as Quatuor Coronati in Latin, the two Saints John were adopted as the patron saints of Freemasonry, giving rise to such old expressions as "a St John's Lodge" and "the St John's Men". In the early days of speculative lodges the officers were installed every six months, usually on the days of the Saints John. Nowadays the annual festivals in England are held on St George's Day and in Scotland on St Andrew's Day....There is no record that any of the Craft rituals referred to Jesus Christ, but it has been suggested that some of the symbolism might have been given a Trinitarian explanation. The records of some catechisms in the early 1700s include references of a Christian character, more particularly in the Royal Arch. The "precious corner-stone for a firm foundation", from Isaiah 28, verse 16 and the tau cross used as "a sign of the righteous on the foreheads of the Lord's people", from Ezekial 9, verse 4, also came into question because of their later Christian connotations. Even the pentalpha, a magical sign used in ancient times as a talisman against the danger of fire and adopted in Freemasonry as an emblem of the five points of fellowship, was questioned because it became a Christian symbol alluding to the five wounds of Christ. Fortunately these and other symbols of ancient origin, like the triple tau, survived the "de-Christianising of the Craft". From the early 1720s the Jewish membership of lodges steadily increased and any Christian overtones that had been in the ritual were progressively eliminated. These superficial changes, which reflected a desire for Freemasonry to be open to all men believing in God irrespective of their creed, were fostered by the Duke of Sussex who was a Hebrew scholar, a member of Jewish learned societies and also a supporter of Christian Emancipation." [Masonic Essays by W.M. Don. Falconer of Sydney, Australia; Masonic Essays;
    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8291/donfr.html (don10.html#6) ]As we've asked so many times before:

    2 Corinthians 6

    15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Next Section: The Clapham Sect & The Socialists

    Previous Section:

    A Little Deviation From Their "Christian" Root

    Footnotes:

    40. http://members.dialnet.net/rtatum/churchrodent/terms/claphamsect.htm

    41. Columbia Encyclopedia; "Clapham Sect", p. 568; 1993, 5th Edition, Columbia University Press

    42. . "Christianity Through the Centuries," pp.490, 491;

    43.Eugene A. Nida; p.50-51; Bible Translations: An Analysis of Principles and Procedures, with Special Reference to Aboriginal Languages; N.Y. Publisher, American Bible Society. 1947

    44. Another Bible, Another Gospel; http://watch.pair.com/another.html

    45. The Greek New Testament, The Fourth revised edition. Editors: Barbara Aland & Kurt Aland; Johannes Karavidopoulos, Carlo M. Martini, Ruth M. Metger; Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, United Bible Societies, Stuttgart, Germany, 1994.

    46. The Nineteenth Century Occult Revival

    47. Life & Letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort, Vol 1; by Arthur Fenton Hort; London, Macmillan and Co. LTD. 1896; also, The Philby Conspiracy; Bruce Page, David Leitch, & Phillip Knightley; Doubleday & Company Inc.; 1968; also, The Fifth Man; Roland Perry, Sidgwick & Jackson, London, 1994.

    48. http://internet.lodge.org.uk/masonic/UGLE/history/wales.html

    49. http://internet.lodge.org.uk/masonic/UGLE/history/grandhall.html

    Copyright . All articles are the sole property of SeekGod.ca and Vicky Dillen

  • yknot
    yknot

    The WTS has never had a problem in using 'worldly' sources so long as a big public fuss isn't made about it....

    *** si pp. 318-319 pars. 22-23 Study Number 6—The Christian Greek Text of the Holy Scriptures ***

    22 Westcott and Hort Text. A Greek master text that has attained wide acceptance is that produced by the Cambridge University scholars B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort, in 1881. Proofs of Westcott and Hort’s Greek text were consulted by the British Revision Committee, of which Westcott and Hort were members, for their revision of the “New Testament” of 1881. This master text is the one that was used principally in translating the Christian Greek Scriptures into English in the New World Translation. This text is also the foundation for the following translations into English: The Emphasised Bible, the American Standard Version, An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), and the Revised Standard Version. This last translation also used Nestle’s text.
    23 Nestle’s Greek text (the 18th edition, 1948) was also used by the New World Bible Translation Committee for the purpose of comparison. The committee also referred to those by Catholic Jesuit scholars José M. Bover (1943) and Augustinus Merk (1948). The United Bible Societies text of 1975 and the Nestle-Aland text of 1979 were consulted to update the footnotes of the 1984 Reference Edition.

  • Quentin
    Quentin

    Inkie...and your point is?

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    It seems to be taken from a website that casts aspersions on the character of several Christian religions while saying that people can believe what they wish ...... in the same paragraph on the home page.

  • Terry
    Terry

    I have spent many years pondering the issues related to the Bible, bible texts, manuscripts, translations, proof texts and such.

    I've read what rabid apologists say and what atheists say and all those in the middle.

    What you have to do eventually is let the facts speak for themselves.

    If you are part of a religious group that uses the Bible as their "source" of doctrine and belief you have to EXPECT they will

    defend the integrity of the Bible. It is self defense.

    What are the facts?

    No original texts have been preserved anywhere.

    They are all gone.

    What does this mean?

    It means the ACTUAL WORDS of the writers of the New Testament books are missing and irrevocably non-existant.

    An honest person should be stunned.

    An intellectually dishonest person (one with a religious agenda) will start making excuses.

    If you don't have the ACTUAL words of the bible writers---what do you have?

    You have approximations made from oral stories handed down and retold for about 75 years after the death of the Apostles.

    Is that enough to base PRECISE transcripts on? Can you really argue a Doctrinal difference without the actual words?

    My conclusion is that the New Testament as a reliable source of proof for anything is questionable and even dishonest.

    Especially if you are going to claim TRUTH as exclusive to your denomination.

    You can't turn to the "words of Paul" or the "words of Jesus" and say "this is what they meant."

    Why?

    WE DON'T HAVE THEIR FRICKIN' WORDS!!

    Christianity was a fluid series of opinions based on stories.

  • yourmomma
    yourmomma

    i would have to dig up my notes, but im pretty sure what the OP posted is propaganda and distortions from the king james only crowd. There are people on here that know more than I do about it.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Terry,

    We have discussed this before and in terms of Historical accuracy the NT is as valid if not more so than many of the historical books we have that are not disputed.

    We have documents dated to less than 100 years after the people who wrote them died, that is excellent in regards to historical documents for those times.

    HOWEVER, I do agree that,arguing doctrinal interpretations is pointless.

    We do NOT have the words of Paul or Jesus, just like we don't have the words of Ceasar or Alexander or others, we do however have a consistency in what we do have preserved that is attributed to them.

    Interpreting those words is another matter of course.

  • Terry
    Terry

    We have discussed this before and in terms of Historical accuracy the NT is as valid if not more so than many of the historical books we have that are not disputed.

    We have documents dated to less than 100 years after the people who wrote them died, that is excellent in regards to historical documents for those times.

    The way your statement is framed is rather interesting in its rigging.

    First you create a standard and then you measure the NT by the standard you set up.

    What standard do you set? Historical books. In other words, secular histories.

    Might it not be better to ask how many secular history books purport to be inerrant? Or, query how many history books claim to be inspired by God?

    Or, question which history books give infallible instruction on how to avoid everlasting punishment?

    Could it be because there IS NO PROPER COMPARISON?

    Today is May 17th in the year 2010.

    Let's see you sit down and write about events in 1910 using whatever you've been told about it.

    Use "actual" quotations from various personalities and give as many particulars of detail as you can.

    What's that you say? That isn't fair?

    Well, name just one single event that you personally KNOW OF that ocurred on May 17th 1910 without any details, then.

    Can we say, Terry, you've proved your point?

    Thank you.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Today -100: May 17, 1910: Of parole and stuttering

    The House passes a bill (which the Senate has already passed) to establish a parole system at the federal level. Some are suggesting this is because of the presence of several well-connected bankers convicted of embezzlement in federal pokies.

    In Paterson, Mrs. Amelia Spinelli filed for divorce against her husband of four months on grounds of cruelty, specifically his stuttering, which is especially obnoxious in Italian. In court, John Spinelli answered one question, “Tu-tu-bu-tu-tu-bu-bu.” “What does he say?” asked Mrs Spinelli’s lawyer. “He hasn’t said it yet,” replied the judge.

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