Lifeforce v. Spirit and Star Trek and Stargate SG1?

by Cold Steel 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Cold Steel

  I was just wondering about the JW concept of lifeforce v. spirit.

  Now I'm a big fan of Stargate SG-1/Atlantis and, to a lesser degree, Star Trek. And the question I always had about the whole dematerialization and rematerialization process used in wormhole travel and beaming and such is this: If I understand it correctly, ever time you dematerialize, you're effectively killed, or cease to exist. The version of "you" that steps onto the transporter or jumps into the wormhole gets completely zapped and the one that reappears on the other side is simply a perfect copy, with all the memories, feelings and so forth. And that version would be completely unaware that he or she (in the case of the very attractive Amanda Tapping) is not the original, but, as I said, a perfect copy.

  If I were a JW, I'd be concerned that the version of me that was dying might be the "original" and that the one resurrected would be just a lifeforce "copy." It would look, think, act and recall just like me, but would it actually be me? In other words, I can copy a Word file on my computer to a key disk, and it would open and act just like the original (the one that was erased). All the fonts, colors and sizes would be right, right down to the slightest detail, but the original would be on my hard disk and, most likely, overwritten. All the 00s and 01s would be identical down to the last detail, but it wouldn't be the same.

  Dr. McCoy may have been right. If he stepped up onto the transporter, he would be completely dematerialized, beamed a considerable distance, and then the computer (hopefully) would put all the parts back together again. I thought of this again when I watched a Stargate episode where SG1 was knocked unconscious on a strange planet (they're always strange, right?) When they came to, they were dressed differently, managed to find their weapons and gear and escape. But back at Stargate Command, they soon began to weaken and pass out. It was soon discovered that they were not, in fact, SG1 at all, but replicas in robotic bodies. At first they wondered how their consciouses had been transferred, but they later learned that their minds had not been transferred at all, but that they had been replicated. Moreover, the original team members had revived and they wanted their lives back! Each had identical memories, feelings -- everything -- but despite the fact that they were self aware, they were merely copies.

  The show raised some fascinating ethical points, and now some theological ones as well.

  What do you think?
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  notverylikely

  What do you think?

  I think you need a hobby or to get laid.
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  Mad Sweeney

  I think SF addresses deep topics like this fairly regularly and sometimes even does it well. I find it sad that it's one of the more disrespected and mocked forms of media entertainment out there. Perhaps because smart people are into it and smart people aren't cool. Many of the greatest books of all time are SF.

  As for this specific question, Dubs don't like to think that deeply about it. If the Borg hasn't seen fit to speculate and make up a prophetic interpretation that covers the question, then the question is inappropriate to ask.
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  mindmelda

  Good questions, actually. The Dubs always claim that when one is resurrected, it's a copy of you, exact in everyway, but hey, doesn't that mean that without a superhuman "upgrade" you'd still be subject to death and disease?

  With that in mind, none of us who were ushered into "the new system", including the resurrected, are going to be in the same bodies, not genetically speaking, that we are now. Death is actually written into our DNA. You know what happens when most bodily cells don't die as they should and then are replaced by new ones (some cells, such as those in the human nervous system, unfortunately don't regenerate, ever)? They mutate and become cancerous. Yes, cells do one of two things, they die or they become cancerous. Cells are genetically written to DIE, or else they become something malignant, tumors or wildly growing cells unable to carry out their life sustaining functions.

  What the Witnesses describe as "resurrection" to a human body or regenerating back to youth or living forever simply isn't in the human genetic code at the moment, and we'd literally be something different from humans as we know it if that was re-written.

  Reading that in a medical science magazine about 7 years back made me think...would we still even be human if we didn't die physically?

  Other religions at least affirm the truth that the body dies...it's only that ethereal and immortal soul that they say lives on. Since that's not quite provable, not scientifically, I leave belief in that to each person, but at least other Christian faiths aren't saying we won't be human in the sense we're familiar with anymore.

  No wonder the Dubs discourage Scifi. It might actually make some people look at actual science, which might lead to actual thoughts...oh dear.

  Oh, I'm sure that the Dubs would no doubt explain by the old "miracle" clause, but I don't know how you could perform this miracle and humans not be fundamentally re-written on a cellular level...and that's what makes us human. We share 98% of our DNA with a chimp, for instance. Change a few hundred thousand strands of this and that and we're...well...something different than what we are now.

  Kind of scary when you think of it that way.
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  Cold Steel

  I didn't know that the JWs discourage sci-fi. I've always found it a way of expanding the mind. Look at the "universes" that have been created by Star Trek and Stargate. Even down to entire books being written on the Klingon "language" and so forth. Talk about someone needing to get a life! I love the Stargate series (except the last "Universe" iteration), and you see all these very hip people doing all these courageous things. Then you see the people who write the episodes, and they're all geeks who live in their mothers' basements and wear plaid shirts and black plastic glasses!

  Another fascinating aspect of science fiction is the quantum physics view that there are multiple parallel universes in which people can delve into any one of a variety of differing options that occur in an almost limitless "crossroads" situations. For example, today you decided to stop by a 7-11 for coffee on the way back from work -- but what if you had in one dimension, but hadn't in another. In each split-second opportunity, what if you had chosen the other option? In another universe you might have stopped, only to die in a car accident when the coffee spills on you? Thus, many millions, or billions, of situations, you may have taken an alternate path and created multiple variations in vast numbers of alternatives that affect the timeline. (In my view, random decisions aren't as random as they appear and are the result of many variables that are far more complex than they appear, in which case all variables being equal, the same result will occur in all cases.) But it's fascinating to think about and write about. Why would a church find it the least bit threatening? In short, how is standard fiction any different than science fiction?

  From a theological standpoint, if other Christian sectarians are correct, then the JWs will know it instantly after they die. They'll look down and see their bodies on the hospital bed, or what have you, and they'll instantly know that a system reset has just occurred.

  Ah, but what if they're right? Does it make a whole lot of sense to "resurrect" people just to throw them (or their copies) back into a pit of destruction? And do I understand it correctly that we'll all be given one last chance to side with Jehovah?
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  mindmelda

  Oh, I've had Witnesses tell me that my "obsession" with Science fiction was unChristian and that my Star Trek novels were demonizing me. LOL

  And, I've known Witnesses far more obsessed with Star Trek than I ever was, so I guess it's one of those things. But, yes, I've read WTS literature warning about the "supernatural" or demonic connotations in some Scifi, like paranormal abilities and such or it encouraging Witnesses to put their hope in science saving the world.