Y R Witnesses so LIFE NEGATIVE?

by Mindchild 9 Replies latest social relationships

  • Mindchild

    This is not a fluff post...

    Hey friends…I got all nostalgic today and for some reason decided to prepare the ultimate talk that I wished I could have given at one of the meetings back yonder when I was a dumb dub. So, the next best thing is to share it here with you cool folks, and just maybe you might find something here of value…

    Why are the Witnesses so LIFE NEGATIVE?

    Perhaps it comes as a surprise to you that I say that the Society has denied life, destroyed life; they have been antagonistic to life, and their God Jehovah is against life. I know of no other belief system that celebrates the mass slaughter of 99.99% of all mankind, nor do I know of another belief systems that is so famous for killing many thousands of their own members by their teachings of blood. The harm they have brought upon children in their own congregations by allowing pedophiles to remain in good standing, those who have committed suicide because of their negativity, and much more condemns them as profoundly life-negative.

    Why are the Witnesses so life-negative? In the name of this religion we have been exploited -- exploited to serve the needs for making more tools of the master exploiters, the Governing Body and in other religions, the priests. The only way to exploit someone is to make him or her afraid. Once a man or woman is full of fear they are ready to submit. Once a man is trembling inside, he loses trust in himself. Then he is ready to believe in any stupid nonsense.

    You cannot make someone believe in nonsense if they have self-trust. Remember, that's how man has been exploited down the ages. This is the very trade secret of the so-called religions including the Borg: make man afraid, make man feel unworthy, make man feel guilty, make man feel that he is just on the verge of everlasting destruction. How to make man so afraid? The only way is: condemn life, condemn whatsoever is natural. Condemn sex because it is the fundamental of life; condemn food because that is the second fundamental of life; condemn relationship, family, friendship, because that is the third fundamental of life -- and go on condemning. Whatsoever is natural to man, condemn it, say it is wrong: "If you do it you will suffer for it brother. If you don't do it you will be rewarded sister. Satan is going to descend on you if you go on living naturally" -- that is the message of the whole past -- "and a paradise earth will be given to you if you go against life."

    That means if you are suicidal, only then will Jehovah God accept you. If you slowly, slowly commit suicide in the senses, in the body, in the mind, in the heart, and you go on destroying yourself, the more you succeed in destroying yourself, the more you will become beloved to the elders and to God. This has been the whole teaching of the religions in the past and it has been made into an art with the Witnesses. This has contaminated man's being, poisoned man. These poisoners have exploited man tremendously out of it. These religions of the past were death-oriented, not life-oriented. Once you start trusting your own being, no elder, no circuit overseer or member of the Governing Body can exploit you.

    I read a story once about an atheist who got lost in a jungle. The whole day he tried to find a way out, but he could not -- tired, hungry, exhausted, bleeding, his clothes torn apart because the jungle was really thick and thorny. And it was getting darker, the sun was setting and the night was just about to come. He's an confirmed atheist who had never prayed. But with the situation -- the fear of the night and the wild animals -- for the first time in his life he thought of God. He forgot all his arguments that he used to give against God. He knelt down on the ground and he said, "Dear Lord...." although he looked around, a little embarrassed, knowing perfectly well that there was nobody, but still embarrassed -- the whole life's philosophy of atheism! But when fear knocks on the doors and when death is so close by, who bothers about logic, philosophies, isms? Who bothers about reason, argument? "Dear Lord," he said, "please help me get out of these woods, and I will always worship you. I will even start going to church. I will follow all the rituals of Christianity. I promise you! Just save me. Forgive me. I apologize for all the things that I have been saying against you. I was a fool, an utter fool. Now I know you are." Just at that moment a bird passed overhead and dropped something right on his outspread hands. "Please Lord, don't give me any of that shit. I'm really lost!"

    WHEN A MAN IS IN FEAR, even though he has been a lifelong atheist, he starts turning into a theist. Priests came to know about it, and then they used it down the ages. The whole past of humanity is fear ridden. And the greatest way to create fear is to make man feel guilty about natural things. He cannot drop them, and he cannot enjoy them because of the fear of hell, or in the case of Witnesses, getting zapped by the Big Guy, so he is in a double bind. That double bind is the base of man's exploitation. You cannot just drop your sexuality because some stupid elder is saying that it is wrong. It has nothing to do with your idea of right and wrong; it is something natural, something in the very being. You have come out of it, each of your cells is a sexual cell. Just by saying, you cannot drop it. Yes, you can start repressing it, and by repressing you can go on accumulating it in the unconscious, and that becomes a wound. And the more you repress, the more obsessed you become with it. And the more obsessed you become, the guiltier you feel. It is a vicious circle. Now you are caught in the trap of the exploiter.

    When you look at history, you can easily see that through the ages that priests never believed in it. These things were for the people, for the masses; the masses have been befooled. History shows us that kings used to have hundreds of wives, and so was the case with priests. And it is a miracle: the people continued to believe in these charlatans.

    There is an old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." But the priests have been fooling people down the ages, and the “Watchtower priests” have fooled you so long that it is now almost an accepted phenomenon. It has been so ancient that we take it for granted; nobody thinks that they are being fooled. The Watchtower Priests have tremendously harmed our hearts, and our human consciousness. They have put this poisonous idea in us that life is something ugly. They have been teaching people how to get rid of life, and live for some far off day that will never come.

    Many Witnesses are pathological, and I think the pathological mind is widespread in the organization. Those Witnesses cannot enjoy; they don't know how to enjoy. Because they are incapable of enjoying, they make a great virtue out of it. Non-enjoyment becomes virtue. You can’t even celebrate your own birthday! Everybody is born with the capacity to enjoy, but not with the art. People think just because they are alive and they breathe and they exist, they know how to enjoy. That is sheer stupidity. Enjoyment is a great art it is a great discipline. It is as subtle a discipline as music or poetry or painting. People are born and they start thinking that they are ready to enjoy life, and they cannot enjoy because they don't know how to enjoy it. They make a mess out of their lives, and sooner or later, when-you are making a mess, there are only two possibilities. One is: think that you are being stupid with life; that hurts the ego. The other is: that life is worthless, that life is misery, that there is no joy in life – then new light comes knocking on your door with the latest copies of JW mind suds with a big shit eating grin, and tells you that you can only be happy if you are a Witness. Little do you realize how miserable you will become then!

    AND THE BASIC THING to remember is: if life is not becoming a celebration, then something is wrong with you, not with life itself The old Borg says life is wrong. But really you are responsible, not life. Once you get this through your head, from there the whole process changes; then something has to be cleaned in you. Something that is hanging around you has to be cut. Chunks of conditioning have to be dropped. You have to go through a surgery. It really hurts like hell. That is what leaving the Borg is all about it is a surgical procedure.

    If you are still inside, and you read this carefully…maybe this hurt you. It is a terrible thing to realize how victimized you allowed yourself to become but knowing about it is your first step for becoming life positive. Please become free and live life as it should be.
    Uh, do you want to ask questions now ex-brothers and ex-sisters? Did I go over my time limit? Did I give enough gestures? Was my fly unzipped again?

    Kind Regards,


  • SixofNine

    Excellent mindchild.

    I've often thought about how religion, and our old religion especially, is so completely anti-nature.. The bible, of course, is the ultimate manual for ignoring nature.

    Which explains why I have felt so alive this past year. Attitude is everything!

  • patio34

    Hi Mindchild,

    That was a very thoughtful post. I agree with man of your points. However, there is one thing that doesn't add up: the WTS doesn't forbid sex at all. Married JWs can be as sexually active as they want. And I don't think the Bible puts a negative slant on it either.

    Now, if you mean extramarital sex, that's a whole nother story! And your points would hold true.

    But celibacy is not the norm for JWs or the Bible, IMHO.

    For what it's worth,

    "It's easier to put on slippers than to carpet the world." (from "Stuart Saves His Family")

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Im aware recently that youve been talking about leaving the board.
    It occurs to me that perhaps you dont get a whole lot of responses to your posts.
    I just realized why.
    They are very intimidating. I myself am afraid to respond to your actual theory for fear of looking a mental pygmy.Still, they are always worth reading.
    This notion of life negativity is something I have been aware of myself. Antisocial. Despising achievement. I constantly condemn the successful, the rich, the ones having a good time.
    And Im only too aware that this is because I can never aspire to those things myself. Ive probably been HAPPY 7 years out of my 45.
    And even then I was not fully happy.Just moderately happy.
    Currently I am bloody unhappy. I mourn over the meaninglessness of my existance, and that I cannot have some things that I want.
    Why cant I have what i want?
    I never have.
    (This is not a sympathy seeking posting, anybody tries to get all supportive...shove it)

    "That which destroyeth me not..maketh me harder"

  • Mindchild

    Hi Patio...well I see you were reading carefully and caught that. I hope to do a follow up post in the future about "spiritual sex" and just wanted to get my foot in the door here. You see, I think our whole first world culture is really messed up about sex, roles, and what sex can be used for. The two worst offenders in ruining sex are religions and the marketing industry. The marketing industry uses sex to sell their products regardless of the human costs (consider the epidemic of women who are trying to become impossibly thin to consider themselves sexy as an example) but religion is the worst offender because it normally inhibits the full expression of sex and the way it can be enjoyed. But alas I get ahead of myself and it will be a very controversial thread to say the least because the ideas I present are not going to be mainstream at all.

    Refiners Fire...thank you for pointing out that my posts seem intimidating. I didn't realize that. I actually appreciate any comments I get on my posts and believe it or not in chat I even asked Fred Hall to take a look at this thread and comment. I hope I don't come off to people like I'm going to jump down their throats if they don't agree with me as I don't have an agenda to convert people to my way of thinking. I wish people wouldn't worry either about making a comment on just a section they found either interesting or offensive.

    Going to your honest comments about being happy in life. Dude I really understand where you are coming from, and so do lots of other people here. I was angry and hurt for more than a decade for what I lost in the Borg and I know the problem of not having meaning. In fact, someone close to me killed themselves because of not having any hope for a good future and having no purpose in life.

    I do think there are some really dynamic and important things we can do to make purpose in our lives and be happy. The first thing of course is getting ourselves out of the fire into the frying pan! lol We were getting burned bad in the Borg but at least it is somewhat cooler here and a few of us have managed to find a way to have happiness. Damn I envy them at times but I'm getting there myself and currently making big changes in my life to get it.

    Kind Regards,


  • Abaddon

    Not only is religion based upon fear, the relief it gives from fear and uncertainty is what keeps people hooked. Even if there are major problems with their faith, the uncertainty that giving up a faith results in (or seems to to a theist) is a strong incentive to keep on believing.

    The sex thing is very true; any non-conformity to standard roles is frowned upon, be it the sexually aggresive woman, the fetishist, etc. (I obviously ezxclude non-consensual activity from the word 'sex'). It's such a dominant influence on society that non-religious people often retain some shadow of religious sexual values.

    Basically, if you make people feel bad about not doing what you tell them, you have them in the palm of your hand...

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • ashitaka

    "make man afraid, make man feel unworthy, make man feel guilty, make man feel that he is just on the verge of everlasting destruction"

    Right, Mind.

    I was talking to my loyal JW brother-in-law today, and he knows my every position as to the JW's. He's one of those types that can accept anyone. He even admits all of the JW faults; he says that his reason for staying is not the JW's goodness, kindness, or loyalty per se, just the fact that's it's an organized religion he can live with. He likes the structure it gives his life.

    I thought that was interesting, and I agreed that it does indeed give structure, but negatively so. He said that percerption was the only thing that separated his and my views. He can see beyond the grave faults of the WTBTS, and live his life without fear. He doesn't even believe in Armageddon.

    This may be the road that many loyal JW's are taking now; just being a good JW and putting in time to preserve family and tradition. He is a fourth generation witness.

    But for all his support of the JW's, he agrees that they rule through fear, and that's why he 'can't stand people' anymore, but cautioned me 'not to abandon Jehovah'.


  • Sirona


    Great post! I like your points about fear. Also I think that its true that the JW religion induces a sort of slow suicide.

    Its good to be out!!

    ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **

  • GoldDustWoman

    Excellent points, Skipper!

    To me, WTS teaches that this life is one to be endured, not lived. The constant use of the word "wicked" to describe any event that does not originate from the WTS. Unless, of course, it supports, however loosely used and cleverly twisted, their doctrines.

    Especially, for those that were either born into, or as young children, had those depressing ideas planted in their brains by the WTS and their witness parents. Those seeds of mass killings and overwhelming destruction, have a very tramatic affect on young minds. The pressure to please Jehovah by denying our natural development takes it toll. Those urges are, for the most part, are given in to, and of course, in the eyes of children, they're dead meat. Try having a positive outlook on life after being spoonfed that growing up.

    So, of course, the result is an adult that is "life negative". Why would they be positive? The only "positive" thing that witness so desperately cling to is the idea that they are going to "live" to see some fantasy utopia and all will be well then.

    In the mean time, they suffer and endure.


  • 144thousand_and_one

    Dear Golddustwoman,

    You mention the utopia that is the hope for the JWs. I don't know about you, but the utopia that they dream of does not appeal to me. First, I don't want to live forever. I want to die when it's time. I think when I'm very old I'll be sick of living. Second, imagine a place where everyone is the same, all your needs are satisfied, etc.. It sounds pretty boring to me. I like the excitement right here. I'll enjoy it right through their "armageddon."

    A Hawaiian friend told me years ago, "don't be dissatisfied with that which you have, or god will take it away from you." How true that is for the JWs! Since they're dissatisfied with life on earth, god takes it away from them in the form of them having to "endure" (as so aptly put by golddustwoman) rather than getting to enjoy!

    I was born and raised a JW, but left it at the tender age of 14, and never looked back (so as to avoid turning into a pillar of salt!). That was 22 years ago. Unfortunately, my extended family still suffers from our involvement, and my siblings have been irreparably harmed.

    Peace to all and Happy New Year!

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