Reasonings on Armaggedon scenario

by bulgogiboy 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bulgogiboy
    bulgogiboy

    Something that always bothered me about JW doctrine, perhaps the thing that bothered me the most about it actually, was the notion that people who die before Armaggedon are, for the most part, entitled to a resurrection, regardless of their religious inclinations or crimes, while the vast majority of those same people, if they happened just by chance to be living at the time of the end, would be destroyed eternally.

    I mean some JWs were actually debating over whether infamous deceased mass-murderers and genocidal maniacs(Hitler, Stalin,Pol Pot,etc) would have any chance of resurrection, whilst at the same time almost casually accepting that basically most non-jws alive at Armaggedon were to be for the chop! So I was given the distinct impression of the Armaggedon scenario that while the bodies of average, decent, everyday people littered the streets, seriously nasty and despicable individuals who had formerly committed henious crimes would be being brought back to at least 1000 yrs of extra life, if not eternal life. It didnt seem just. I was told on at least one occasion that I needed to examine what 'true justice' was in this situation. My conscience told me clearly that this was many things but was not justice.

    So bearing this in mind, assuming this teaching hasnt changed(?) in the past 10 yrs or so, let's consider a make-believe scenario:

    Two very old man are lying in a hospital bed, they havent got long to live at all.

    The first man, is a complete scumball, waste of space. Let's say he's a serial killer. Think Dexter, but without the 'code' and likeability. So, he's lying there, dying, and Armageddon comes. The shock of all the earthquakes, lightning, people screaming, etc, is too much for his old ticker and he corks it out of shock alone within the first few seconds. Then the angels come and get stuck into all the non-jws and slaughter everyone in about 5 seconds flat. The old man hasnt actually been destroyed by Jehovah, he really died of natural causes. Does he get a resurrection and a chance of eternal life?

    The second man hasnt been particularly pious all his life, let's say he's an occasional church goer, but he's a decent man, he raised his kids right, was faithful to his wife, never harmed anyone, etc. He didnt smoke and drink as much as the scumball serial killer, so his heart is a bit stronger. He doesnt die of shock, but is still lying there when an angel flies in the window. Does his extra strength(due to taking better care of his body than the dead scumball) mean that he is now scheduled for eternal destruction, as he's living at the time of the end?

    I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say with this, maybe my example could be made better, but I hope you get my general point about the injustice of it all. Of course any just, all-knowing god would be able to look at the situation and see that the bad guy stays dead and the decent guy is spared and given another chance. The problem with the way the WT portrayed the J-Meister at Armaggedon was that he seemed not too concerned with the details, he was portrayed as having a George W Bush attitude: you're with us or you're with the enemy. I often thought that a God that could give such little consideration to individual cases, when eternal life and destruction were at stake, was a God that I couldnt have any love for...

    Thoughts anyone?

  • cofty
    cofty

    I remember debates with my pioneer partner about this, it raises a real paradox.

    I heard witnesses saying how glad they were when an old non-dub relative died so they would "get a resurrection"

    Taken to a logical conclusion the kindest thing a witness could do for others is to become a suicide bomber. Thank god few people actually follow their beliefs consistently

  • bohm
    bohm

    I used to entertain myself with a very similar thought-experiment when i was getting to learn the JW theology and we both know the answer: "Jehovah will be fair and just".

    I think a more fundamental thing to ask is this: "What would jehovah have to do to make YOU think he was being unjust?" (works just as well with "evil" instead of "unjust"). The problem is that in the well-indoctrinated mind Jehovah can do anything he like - ANYTHING - and it will NEVER be unjust. He can flip out and zap random babies and it will be just.

    If you ask deeper into the subject you will hear the worst defence of a crime ever: "He has his reasons we cannot understand".

    Holy-fucking-shit. Try cheating on your girlfriend and see if she buys THAT explanation.

    its interlectual wasteland, and i think the reason it is so important to install these ideas into the minds of jws is because it allows for a lot of other ideas such that the GB cannot be wrong even when they are (it was the right thing to teach at that time) or that shunning is an act of love.

  • bulgogiboy
    bulgogiboy

    Exactly, it breeds completely illogical reasoning. I think many jws dont realise how it much it goes against common morality. An ex-jw friend of mine recounted to me that a jw associate of his once expressed shock at a newspaper article he had read, which told of a couple of jws going on a random killing spree. What a terrible sin they had committed.

    My friend replied that it wasnt a sin at all, the jws had done the murder victims a favour. As non-jws the deceased would have died at the imminently arriving Armaggedon anyway, but now they were dead they would get the chance to live forever in paradise.

    The jw had no reply.

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    The kindest thing is to never preach. If you've not heard the Word, you get a free pass to Resurrection City.

    Of course, it's much saner to just drop the whole End Of The World thing.

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    In my JW past, I used to resent the fact that i was living in the 'time of the end' and that I had all of this wonderful knowledge that led to incredible guilt. How great it is to be free of that 'knowledge' and see it for the fairy tale that it is...

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