"Some thoughts on the trinity" - a bit additional
My take on the trinity. All verses from the ASV.
The trinity is one of Babylons most dominating teachings along with the soul being mortal not as reward but by birth and burning hell. Overlooking that the punishment for death in sin is death of the soul and overlooking that cities getting destroyed are burning forever too in the Bible’s rich symbolic language.
There are two versions of basic trinity;
1. God are three yet one: the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. These are all equal and the calculation goes 1x1x1=1. This one is so obvious wrong, Jesus said the father is greater than him. The Son has been seen but the father can’t be approached and so on.
Therefore a more twisted version was invented;
God are three yet one: the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. These are not equal in power, yet they are of the same substance. The father is mightier than the son yet they are both one God, the are a part of the Godhead, sometimes the blantant word ‘God family’ is used. Three Gods. The calculation goes: 1+1+1=1. This is obviously wrong too but in its contradictive nonsense it seem to deal with all scriptures. Ofcause it doesn’t deal with the Bible’s overall context.
The trinity have been up to great debate through time. Therefor the church needed to produce Bibles that more or less pushed forth the myth by minor manipulations here and there and above all saying that if people didn’t believe this nonsense, then they would be doomed. The answer is of cause that it isn’t true. Unlike universalism which is quit easy to refute, God’s nature appears as a mystery to most Bible believing people. When you combine this mystery with fear then it becomes very dangerous. The mob that fight against non trinitarians today are of the same nature as those that burned people on the stakes. Those ‘heretics’ that the church burned on the stake wasn’t burned because of belief in universalism, almost all because of belief in arianism or another alternative to the trinity.
An argument for the trinity is that Jesus is God’s son, therefor he must be of the same ‘substance’ (note the sneaky wording). However this reasoning overlooks several points; 1. When he’s less powerfull he can’t be the same person, angels are sons of God Job 1:6 (Elohim just like Jehovah is translated a few places), they are called that several places such as Job 1:6. We read of Jesus: Psalms 8:5 “For thou hast made him but little lower than *God (in the Greek translation ‘angels’), And crownest him with glory and honor. 8:6Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; Thou hast put all things under his feet”. Same thought in Hebrews 2:7 “Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; Thou crownedst him with glory and honor, And didst set him over the works of thy hands”. So the title Son of God doesn’t say that he’s of same substance as Jehovah. Also the title god is a mighty being. That’s a historical fact even the Bible backs up in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6. But Jesus is of cause above angels. What separate him from them? That he’s the beginning of Jehovah’s creation (Revelations 3:14/Colossians 1:15) and the begotten one (Hebrews 1:5). Pauls also writes in Hebrews:
Hebrews 5:5So Christ also glorified not himself to be made a high priest, but he that spake unto him, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 11:17By faith Abraham, being tried, offered up Isaac: yea, he that had gladly received the promises was offering up his only begotten son.
John adds;
John 1:14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
John 1:3All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
So Jesus is Jehovah’s (only) begotten son and all was made through him.
God’s name in the OT is Yahweh but a few times he appears by the name Elohim. This being plural is a newer trinitarian argument. Along with this the trinity people quote:
Deuteronomy 6:4Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:
Bizarre enough some find this to be a proof for the trinity. God is 3 but he’s 1 remember . The reason is that the hebrew word Elohim has two forms; singular and plural. It can talk of both angels - the sons of god (Job 1:6), gods and a single god. Just like some words in other languages are spelled the same way in singular and in plural.
However in almost all places God is called Yahweh, strictly singular.
Another;
Isaiah 45:11Thus saith Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: Ask me of the things that are to come; concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands, command ye me. 45:12I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens; and all their host have I commanded.
Apart from calling Jehovah one here, it says that God made the heavens with his own hands. Jeremiah 27 says his ‘outstretched arm’.. Note that the trinitarians switch platform in this situation. When it’s needed God is three like when Jesus was on earth and when it’s needed God in one. With this comes the assumption that God is like a man with hands. His hands must be his own. However in Isaiah 53 he explains what his arm is, another being just like the angels are servants. Amazing that anyone can see the trinity in this;
1 Corinthians 8:6yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
It should be obvious that we are speaking of two beings.
John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:2The same was in the beginning with God. 1:3All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
John 1:14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
John 1:18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
When we replace the 2nd God in the first line of John 1:1 with ‘a god’ we see the meaning of it all (and that’s fully grammatically allowed, just not in the trinitarians agenda and what’s more the sentence becomes logic). We see that the God is Jehovah and the Word the one that became Jesus.
Same thought here;
Philippians 2:5Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, 2:7but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
Obviously he was not Jehovah himself. He was another being having ‘an equility’.
Two beings of different nature. One that creates (the mastercreator) and one it’s made through (the servant/tool), the beginning of God’s creation, the only begotten, ie. the only one Jehovah made himself. Furthermore the one that has been seen by men. The one who is in God’s image, the messenger and servant. God’s Son, Jehovah is his father, Jesus is not Jehovah himself but the 2nd mightiest.
Revelations 3:14And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:
1 Corinthians 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
The meaning of the label ‘the beginning of the creation of God’ has of cause been corrupted by trinitarians. But a commentator writes;
‘In Revelation chapters 2 and 3 Jesus tells each of the churches, “I am this,” and “I am that.” In this verse Jesus tells us he is the arche of the creation of God.
Greek scholars will say that arche in this sentence structure could mean that Jesus is the first created being, or that he is the ruler over all creation. It could even mean that Jesus was the source or origin of all creation although it does not have this definition anywhere in the New Testament. When discussing the word arche, a Trinitarian in his book says that “it must be admitted that the word might bear this meaning” (in the sense that Jesus was the first created being). He then goes on to quote Alford’s commentary, saying that “arche out of this context could possibly mean, ‘the Christ is the first created being.’” (See Robert M. Bowman, Should You Believe in the Trinity, p. 65.) Although he says that arche could be taken “out of. . . . context,” he does not explain his reasoning. The context of Revelation 3 certainly does not prohibit or encourage any specific definition to help us understand what this word means. Other commentaries state a similar principle that the word arche and the grammar of Revelation 3:14 do not prohibit the idea that Jesus is the first created being. Every time the word arche is used by John in his writings in the singular form, he uses it to mean first in time. Never once does he use it to mean origin or source. The point of Revelation 3:14 is that Jesus is the first of all creation. ‘
End of commentar.
Two beings of a different nature and different rank.
We see it here too:
Jehovah (Almighty God hebrew 'El Sjaddaj')
Genesis 17:1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, Jehovah appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Jesus (Mighty God hebrew 'El Gibbor')
Isaiah 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
It’s amazing that anyone could believe that God talks to himself here:
Genesis 1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 1:27And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
So man is in the image of God.
Two trinity ‘prooftexts’ are John 8:24 and John 8:58. Popular Bibles says;
John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
By so they claim that Jesus in this sneaky bad grammar way reveals that you have to believe the trinity to be saved. This is because of Genesis 3:14 where Jehovah in Hebrew call himself I Am. Clever of Babylon towards those of blind belief. However if you read the context it’s obvious that Jesus as always when he was on earth claimed to be God’s Son. The Pharisees were furious that Jesus claimed to be God’s son and in spiritual unity with his father. The wording in Hebrew is very different than the one in Greek and it’s no surprise that translators not sold to the trinity translate ‘I was’ or the most the apparently most correct, ‘I have been and still am’. It’s surprising how many lesser know older Europeen translations render it like it should be showing that these people placed more faithfullness in translating as correct as posible than to manipulate people into their beliefsystem. What is left is the feeling a most embarrising bad grammar translation.
A proof against the trinity is that Jesus was a man on earth raised in the spirit showing physical evidence to the disciples and later revealing the mystery of the resurrection of the just into spirit.
Hebrews 2:6But one hath somewhere testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? Or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 2:7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; Thou crownedst him with glory and honor, And didst set him over the works of thy hands:
1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, 2:6who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;
Matthew 1:16and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Matthew 1:20But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:18Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
1 Corinthians 15:42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 15:43it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 15:44it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body
Crushingly proof against the trinity is given here;
Matthew 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. 24:35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 24:36But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. 24:37And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Of cause, if Jesus is Jehovah he would know that day and hour too (when this world ends).
Another crushing proof;
15:24Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. 15:26The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 15:27For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.
Two beings of different authority. Are they in some mysterious way the same? If they are why do Paul state: ‘But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.’? I know why; to teach people that Jesus isn’t Jehovah!
Jesus explains here how you should look on him and on his father:
Luke 4:8And Jesus answered and said unto him, It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
John 17:3And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.
John 5:30 - "I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I
seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. (DEALS WITH THE JUDGMENT!)
Paul adds;
Romans 10:9because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Romans 10:9 is in itself very true but terible taken out of context as only means of salvation. The way to salvation is indeed to be believe in Jehovah, believe Jesus is Jehovah’s sacrificial lamb, walk the narrow path (Matthew 7:13-14), work with fear and trembling for ones salvation (Hebrews 10:26-31) from literal destruction (Acts 3:23) and telling/warning others (Matthew 28:19-20). Another example of trinitarians taken sentences out of context because they don’t understand that any interpretation must match with all written, not just 10 or 20 verses they can find to their advantage in their NIV Bibles. Romans 10:9 point of to those who have read the Jewish law that the belief in Jehovah’s sacrificial lamb replaces the keeping of the Jewish law.
1 Corinthians 8:6yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
That’s how it is, that’s the different roles they play. When Paul speaks of them both, the Son always appear as subject to the Father. Worship Jehovah, believe his son died for our sins and was raised BY JEHOVAH like we will be raised, that’s the truth.
John adds;
1 John 1:3that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you also, that ye also may have fellowship with us: yea, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ: 1:4and these things we write, that our joy may be made full. 1:5And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 1:7but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If one read the following verses from Revelation one sees clearly two distinct beings and the rank between them. Except perhaps if one reads an overly trinity biased Bible like the NIV.
Revelations 1:4John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from him who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits that are before his throne; 1:5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood; 1:6and he made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelations 4:2Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne; 4:3and he that sat was to look upon like a jasper stone and a sardius: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, like an emerald to look upon. 4:4And round about the throne were four and twenty thrones: and upon the thrones I saw four and twenty elders sitting, arrayed in white garments; and on their heads crowns of gold. 4:5And out of the throne proceed lightnings and voices and thunders. And there was seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;
Revelations 4:8Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.
Revelations 5:6And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth. 5:7And he came, and he taketh it out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne. 5:8And when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 5:9And they sing a new song, saying,
Revelations 5:9Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, 5:10and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth.
Revelations 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelations 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Where does this leave the Holy Spirit? Not a single thing backup that the Holy Spirit is one of the God’s that are three but one.
Genesis 1:2And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters 1:3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
John 20:21Jesus therefore said to them again, Peace be unto you: as the Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 20:22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:
Markus 12:36David himself said in the Holy Spirit, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet.
John 14:26But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.
Acts 1:16Brethren, it was needful that the Scripture should be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spake before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was guide to them that took Jesus.
Luke 4:1And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led in the Spirit in the wilderness 4:2during forty days, being tempted of the devil. And he did eat nothing in those days: and when they were completed, he hungered. 4:3And the devil said unto him, if thou art the Son of God, command this stone that it become bread. 4:4And Jesus answered unto him, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone. 4:5And he led him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 4:6And the devil said unto him, To thee will I give all this authority, and the glory of them: for it hath been delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 4:7If thou therefore wilt worship before me, it shall all be thine. 4:8And Jesus answered and said unto him, It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
The Holy Spirit is God’s spirit.
The only place the Bible names the Holy Spirit together with Jehovah and Jesus is regarding baptism:
Matthew 28:19Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
The Father = Jehovah, the Son = Jesus, the Holy Spirit = Jehovah’s spirit that he’s able to fill people with.
Acts 2:17And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: 2:18Yea and on my servants and on my handmaidens in those days Will I pour forth of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.
Not a single thing points out that the Holy Spirit is a part of the trinity. A Christian sect, Church Of God founded by Armstrong teaches that the Father and the Son are one but the Holy Spirit is God’s spirit just as shown here, not part of this alternative ‘Godhead’.
This only adds to show how the trinity is, you can apparently argue endlessly about the Father and the Son but the Holy Spirit being part of the ‘Godhead’ is really thin.
To conclude, use reason when you read and learn from the Word. The Bible so obviously speak of two beings. The trinity church made their confusion Holy but that authority has not been given them to them from God. On the contrary the fruits of those men and systems that made the trinity so obviosly speak of where it came. As soon as the state powers became chrisitan a few hundred years after Christ’s death their fruits became oppression, religious terror and persecution.
Matthew 7:13Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. 7:14For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Matthew 7:18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 7:19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 7:20Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
The majority of the religious people follow the broad way to destruction the churchpeople have set for them. The narrow way is that of committed faith and knowledge. Jesus describes the selection like this;
Matthew 24:38For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 24:39and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 24:40Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
There’s no set of religious ideas or system that can secure your salvation. This is the biggest crime of the church. It has told people that they can be saved by confessing some religious ideas.
Of this corrupted historical church in itself, the Bible says;
Revelations 18:2And he cried with a mighty voice, saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and is become a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird. 18:3For by the wine of the wrath of her fornication all the nations are fallen; and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth waxed rich by the power of her wantonness. 18:4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: 18:5for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
The trinity wasnt invented by Jesus. It was invented by the church and began to see the light of day a few hundred years after his death, primarily by Roman theolog Tertulian. By making a doubtable and unlogic doctrine Holy Law, the church made themselves God. Their fruits? Look through history and see what these men presumably filled by the Holy Spirit did. All though some cults have caused people’s death even today the crimes of the cults are minimal compared to what crimes the church and its followers still do. A single fascinating example is that they teach you can be christian and soldier at the same time! Catholic mobs still attack people of other beliefs around the world. So would the protestants if it wasnt the tendency that most are protestants in the more priviledged countries.
The trinity in itself is just one of its fruits. The way to saving is the way of committed faith. Not adapting manmade doctrines. Many in one way or another believe will all see but not all enter, just like Moses saw but didn’t enter the Holy Land and gnashed his teeth. Then some will say to Jesus; “But I believed in the Holy Trinity!!! They said I would be saved!” Jesus will say; “And? Men’s doctrines can’t save you. Your walk was not worthy of me. I told you of me and the one that send me to you. You followed men not me. I told you what I required, committed faith.”
