Is the YMCA now a concience matter?.....
The following is a little exchange on facebook i had, me playing devils advocate. Now, i am well aware after a search of the WT library 08 that the WBTS saw no problem using YMCA pools to do baptisms in the 1950s, and then in the 1979 had the big article saying a jW cannot join the Y. So is this guy wrong, or has it changed?
You wrote on January 9, 2010 at 8:25pm
Thankyou ****** for the info on '***'.
still wondering if anybody wants to answer my question in post 7 though...
i mean, some religious charities, organizations have clothing stores, swimming pools for use. Some political orgs have extensive libraries to use. Can we use such and still be no part of the world. Can i take out a membership card for the YMCA to use the pool? Can i take out a library card at a poitical office so i can use the library and resources?
*********wrote on January 9, 2010 at 8:30pm
All your questions are a matter of your Christian conscious. If your Bible-based conscious has server you well thus far in your life, by all means continue on.
******* wrote 8 hours ago
@******- Jehovah has granted us the ability to discern his thoughts on some matters though the Bible does not categorically state what you should or should not do about cases like that. Remember how Jehovah used Cyrus who was not His follower to save the Jews. That was fulfilment of Bible prophecy. we are told of Cyrus:
"unknown to King Cyrus, who was likely a pagan devotee of Zoroastrianism, Jehovah God had been figuratively ‘taking Cyrus’ right hand’ to lead or strengthen him, girding him and preparing and smoothing the way for his accomplishing the divine purpose: the conquest of Babylon. "
As Armand said, some of these things are a matter of ones own conscience. If your use of the library does not contradict any clearly stated Bible principle, and they do not require any obeisance whatsoever be done to the country in exchange for books, then clearly you can use the facility. Of course we used the sports stadium in Ghana for our International Assembly. We turned it into a place for Pure Worship.
For the issue on clothing stores, I remember a brother who in his talk mentioned that we do not want to promote Christendom and its merchants/commerce as Revelation states of Babylon the Great, empire of false religion. So whiles I can buy a Dolce and Gabbana or Gucci stuff.. I may not buy stuff from 'Latter Day saints' if the objective of the shop is to promote their activities.
Some of these issues need deep research, prayer and reliance on Jehovah for guidance so as to give Him exclusive devotion and not pollute our worship .
From my research, that's the information I can provide on this matter.
Ask more questions and I will be glad to answer.
I really doubt there's any new light on that. They must think of you as a complete outsider. It's an often used tactic on outsiders to say to the more wacky laws that they are up to someone's conscience. See as a reference QFR w99 11/1, where it says voting is a conscience matter. Guess what will happen if you do vote? At best a public reproval. Same goes here.
I was disgusted when I was reading back all the awake articles, especially during the 1990s, HEAVILY praising and promoting the UN. Every article talked about the UN and them working on hunger, disease, etc, YET only the permanent fix is God's kingdom. No matter they were promoting it as the current fix.
Once you have shown them that YMCA membership is dissaproved of in the 79 QFR, challenge them to refer you to an article that retracts it or proposes new light on the subject. If he can't/won't do that, point out that he is contradicting the Watchtower and ask him if he is really an Apostate trying to lead you astray?
Sure, you can "exercise your christian conscience" and join the YMCA, but be prepared to lose your "privileges" (or worse) if one of your "friends" decides to make an issue out of it.
I grew up in walking distance to a YMCA swimming pool and would have LOVED to have gone with my school friends, but I was not allowed because it was part of "Babylon the great".
Mom & Dad: "What if you're in there swimming when armageddon comes? You surely wouldn't have Jehoovas protection! You wouldn't want that now would you? Of course not. Now let's go spend our Saturday's knocking on doors wearing full suits and ties in the summer heat to spread the 'good news'."
My wife and I belonged to a gym that was owned by a Baptist church, but there was no religious overtones about it. It was just a fully functional gym that had classes for yoga and other exercises. One morning, we spotted one of our elders there. We made eye contact and he never said anything to us - and we never said anything to him. I guess if he was going to make a stink about it ... well, it would just be twice as embarrassing for him.
My wife was DF'd for joining the YMCA a few years back so let me give you our perspective.
As MissingLink pointed out you can "exercise your christian conscience" and join the Y, but the results of the choice are far from certain.
The question is, do the Elders feel a need to bring you into compliance with official Watchtower law? In me and my wife's case, the YMCA was used to try and force us back to meetings (we had not attended for about 4-6 months). Had we joined while we were faithful members, we may never had face official WT sanctions because of the choice. But because we stopped attending under suspicions of apostacy, the YMCA issue gave the Elders something to officially charge us with.
I think it is important to view Elders as enforcers. Sometimes enforces go "by the book" to force compliance and sometimes they do not. This does not fit the image the Watchtower projects regarding uniform obedience to the "faithful slave", but it surely is the reality of the situation (as it is with anybody in charge of enforcement of a particular law or rule)
I agree with others...joining the Y is still very much not accepted. In fact, my town has a public building known as the "Commmunity Y" where you can pay to use gym facilities, and the elders tell people to not go there because, even though it's not actually part of the YMCA/YWCA, they don't want anyone to be "confused" by seeing Witnesses there. My mother had to turn in her membership card after someone was nearly "stumbled" by seeing it in her wallet while they were buying coffee on a service break.
You will often hear Dubbies quoting experiences with family & congregation members that push the notion that they are not members of a high control cult, but these 'liberal' members are nearly always 'out of order' if published rules and doctrines are referred to.
That is why JWs who insinuate anything that seems the slightest bit awry should be challeged to provide the paperwork to prove their position.
When a Dubbie walks away from you he should not be thinking "I got the bugger that time!" He should be thinking, "I wish I hadn't said that. Now the bar steward want me to prove it. Damn!"