Scribblings at the convention

by MisfitMeL 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • MisfitMeL
    MisfitMeL

    I'm sure others have done similar topics and there might be many points that are repeated - I apologise!

    I allowed myself to be dragged by mum to the district convention which was a very bad idea... I have not been to a meeting in four years... so it's like staying clean for four years and then overdosing it for 3 days in a row (5 days if you count the total time spent staying with an elder's family!) - Bad reaction! lol

    Anyway, know how all the good JWs dutifully take notes during such a "spiritual feast"? Well to keep myself from falling asleep and to give the appearance of a keen member, I took my notes too - however they would have cleared the entire row if they realised what I was scribbling down... Some of my ponderings ....

    Acts 7:22 was mentioned - "Consequently Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. In fact, he was powerful in his words and deeds."

    That struck me as odd since Exodus 4:10-17 shows that Moses was not a fluent speaker and very inadequate in the art of public speaking. However, instead of improving Moses' skills, Jehovah merely appointed Aaron to speak on behalf of Moses so Mr M wasn't really powerful in his words right?!

    A new discovery since my 'release from JW slavery' - I noticed my bible mentions the Kingdom Interlinear translation of the Greek Scriptures in the foreword... I had never noticed that before and didn't know of its existence until I was researching 'apostate' material online Yet another one of my 'How could I miss that?!?' moments!!

    One of the speakers constantly stressed how 'some' JWs in the past jumped to hasty conclusions and made predictions. I felt like standing up and shouting 'Lies!!!' He mentioned only 3 years 1914, 1925 and 1975 .... he even said some of you may remember 1975 and how some JWs thought the end would come then... and also mentioned the horrible lie of how CT Russell thought 1914 was the end - to which everyone giggled and I was appalled at how no one seemed perturbed by all these failed predictions, especially some who witnessed the 1975 fiasco!! The pre-prepared excuse to such failures - Our eagerness to see Jehovah fulfill his promises. Our alertness is to be appreciated

    To the century old expectation of armaggedon, Prov 13:12 came to mind - Expectation postponed makes the heart sick - Could that be why so many JWs are depressed and pretty much mentally unhinged at times?!

    'Spirit of Independance' - DUN DUN DUN DUN!!! Vilified several times...

    'Keep on asking, keep knocking, research, stay awake!' - Umm... do you think it's a good idea if I kept pestering them why the older publications are no longer made available and easy to access for research??

    How many times has Jesus ever used Jehovah's name in conversation? - I looked at my bible and could find only two instances - Matt 4:10 and Mark 12: 29-30 .... I would need to double check with the KIT tho, coz it is probably inserted?

    Of all the members of 'baptised' JWs each year - how many are under 18?? Catholics are criticised for baptising babies but most children are not capable of deciding on serious religious commitments either!

    One of the talks emphasised the dangers of Peer Pressure in context of the big bad outside world. Fear of man is a form of peer pressure and everything the speaker said could be turned against the JWs themseves. They are afraid to go against the rest of the group due to fear or rejection/ostracism. A lot of the times, it makes individuals not stand up for what is right, especially if all of their family and friends are in the truth.

    Job 2: 4, 6 - Satan challenges that everything a man has he will give in behalf of his soul. I interpret this to mean that a person would do anything to save his own life/soul (if you believe in an afterlife). However Jehovah says Satan can do anything, except only watch out for Job's soul itself. Isn't this challenge not very ideal since Job's soul was never allowed to be brought into the equation?? and what about a person's children? I know parents would be willing to sacrifice their souls/life to safeguard that of their children... couldn't Satan tempt Job in that way instead of killing off his entire progeny at the start?!

    Isaiah 65: 25 - 'Wolf and lamb eat as one etc.... As for the serpent, his food will be dust.' That implies that the serpent is carnivorous and will be tamed into a dust eating being. However, Genesis 3: 14 as we all know is where god curses the serpent sayng that 'dust is what you will eat all the days of your life.' Eh?? How does that tie in?! When did god reverse his all binding proclamation?!

    While dozing off, I heard the speaker mention that JWs believe Babylon the Great will be destroyed in literal 1 day because the bible says so. Is this current teaching or was I listening to old light? And what is their basis for judging this scripture to be taken as a literal 1 day? What if it is a figurative 1000 years?

    Rev 20:10 mentions ' they will be tormented day and night forever and ever' - HELL?! I would really love to know what sort of drugs the dude was on tho....

    To the claim that JWs insist you must join to be saved, the speaker countered - 'Not all JWs will be saved at Armaggedon' - Does that mean that not all NON-JWs will be destroyed at Armaggedon? Could some honest hearted non JWs be saved?

    In the Watchtower article, para 7 says Satan twisted the scriptures i.e he altered the word of God. How is that possible if we trust God to safeguard his word down through the years? And how exactly did he twist the words? is there some way to compare an authentic version with a satan defiled one?! Then para 8 says the faithful ones studied the scriptures to see flashes of truth - but how could they do that if it was corrupted?

    Hearing the org stealing 'Paradise Lost' and 'Paradise Regained' made me chuckle.. they can't even come up with their own material and now have to resort to pinching catch phrases from 'wordly' sources... tut tut....

    Apparently, Babylon the great is 'drying up'.. I wonder what the latest statistics are on religious growth, especially among the evangelical sections... I thought such faiths were flourishing?

    The constant stressing of contributions made me feel ill too.... they don't want people educating themselves and wanting high paid jobs, and yet hassle them for more money all the time!

    The Resolution was awful as well - talking about being in support of God's rulership - more like GB's dictatorship... I had to suppress a snicker when the speaker said the Bible ALONE provides the answer... does that mean we can throw out all the WTs and books?? Oh the irony of the statement - Trust in imperfect, mortal humans is futile!

    If 3 days of such nonsense wasn't bad enough, I was dragged to visit the Bethel which is nothing more than a posh looking glorified prison camp. Prisoners have to rise up at dawn, gather in the hall, eat quickly and then march off to do their specified roles in the institution. Had lunch with the bethelites and felt sorry at how they all gulped down their food and then rushed off back to their chores. The 'barber room' rule was odd... there is a window in the door where you can look in and see the guy cutting off the bloke's hair.. the tour guide said - when the men are having their haircut, the curtain is open, when the women are having theirs, the curtain is drawn closed. Isn't that weird?!? What's so private about having a hair cut? It's not like the woman has to undress or anything.... right?!? oooohhhh *strokes hairy upper lip*

    Felt sorry again, when the bethelites themselves admitted the surrounding gardens and ponds were very beautiful but they didnt have any time to enjoy it as they were so busy. What a pitiful existence :(

    Anyway, I just needed to get that off my chest, and telling my friends isn't going to be of much help as none of them are JWs. So there it is! :D

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Sure sounds like a nice waste of a week. Hearing all that bulls***--most of what has been said in that Grand Boasting Session contradicts specifics that are in other Grand Boasting Sessions or in some of the Washtowel study articles (let alone the Showcase washtowels). Expectations postponed--what happens if the thing desired never comes? The witlesses have been waiting 135 years for Armageddon, yet they never said a word about 1874.

    As for Beth Hell, I sure don't want to go to any place like that. They can boast about having all those fine things, fine food, and good surroundings to enjoy all they want. But, if there isn't going to be time to enjoy it, it does no good. What they don't say is that those people are dumped when they are no longer needed or when they get too old or sick (or break the tiniest of rules). You can get fired, for instance, just for listening to rap music (and not even with swearing, just clean rap). There is little or no free time for those in Beth Hell, and everything you do requires permission from headquarters. This is set up almost like a Catholic monastery--yet those witlesses continue bashing the Catholic church for having monks and nuns.

  • yknot
    yknot

    My mom just about fell off her chair when Geof Jackson said those three dates!

    Oh well you have survived....... and are likely to survive until next years DC too!

    What got me is how those dates were errs put forth by overly eagar men, yet no one questions the validity of 1943's 'corrected' chronology.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    How many times has Jesus ever used Jehovah's name in conversation? - I looked at my bible and could find only two instances - Matt 4:10 and Mark 12: 29-30 .... I would need to double check with the KIT tho, coz it is probably inserted?

    Yes you are correct. In both verses quote Deuteronomy which of course has "YHWH". However, there is not a single copy of the New Testament that contains YHWH, even those verse which quote the OT and they certainly do not have "Jehovah". Even the NWT reference bible admits the WT folly, look in the back. Here's the original Greek, as you see all these verse have "Lord" and "God"

    http://biblos.com/matthew/4-10.htm

    http://biblos.com/mark/12-29.htm

    http://biblos.com/mark/12-30.htm

    No doubt there was little reference to the name above all names that brings life? Philippians 2:9 John 20:31 Acts 2:38

    How long before they go the whole hog?

    Acts 4:18 (New International Version)

    18 Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus.

    So did the convention mention Rev 20:10? I thought they would hurry past those verses.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • teel
    teel

    Oooh Mel, you're thinking idependently, you naughty girl

    Catholics are criticised for baptising babies but most children are not capable of deciding on serious religious commitments either!

    You know what's funny? The JWs are much guilty in this than many other churches. Before getting sucked into JW I was baptized as a little child as protestant. Then at the age of 14 when I was somewhat more mature there was the "confirmation" rite, where I confirmed that I want to be a protestant. But the funny thing is: neither of these made me part of the church! These were only symbolic rites. At the age 19 when I wanted to join JWs I went to my local church to ask them to get me off their list, as I am no longer protestant. Surprise surprise, the priest said I was never a member of the church! Baptism didn't make me protestant, confirmation didn't either, to belong fully to the protestant church I would have to go after the age 18 and ask to be a full member!

    I only realised the true meaning of this recently: JWs constantly boast that their numbers only increase of members who really want that religion, not just born-ins. Yet as many here realised already, in the majority of cases the JW child will be baptized way before age 18, some even before age 10! Most of these children don't understand almost anything of the true meaning of baptism, they only want to please their parents and impress their JW friends. In contrast you can't get into the protestant church until you're old enough to actually take that decision for yourself. So who are really the child baptisers here?

  • chickpea
    chickpea

    whoa, matey!

    talk about taking one for the team...
    if there was a medal to award i would
    hope you would be wearing it!!

    i have to say that your description of
    your bethel visit ABSOLUTELY mirrors our
    2002 visit to the NZ bethel at manurewa...

    the octagonal design of the building insured
    a 360 o view of a fabulous garden that is
    actually used as an illustration in one
    of the study books (sorry, cannot recall),
    yet no one was able to spend a moment
    in quiet reflection....

    total zombies, with smiles that barely hid
    a festering desperation....

  • Bangalore
    Bangalore

    So could Bethel be called a spiritual boot camp?

    Bangalore

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Uh oh, be careful. You're JW family may start referring to these scribblings as Mel-isms. That's what my wife said about some of my scribblings at the recent assembly we attended in Richmond, VA. She calls them Gary-isms.

    The bethelite brother was giving a talk at the assembly I attended with my wife and they spoke of the sins of the world and spoke of only pornography. I made a note of it with question marks and scribbled the question below it, "Why single out pornography?"

    My wife, upon seeing this, scribbled above it, "Gary-ism."

    So Bethel looks like a glorified prison camp? My wife got an invitation to visit Bethel from her protoge's mom and I indicated that we should all go together. She asked her protoge and her protoge's mom if we could come at the assembly. They said yes but for some reason now, we're not going and are instead going to Atlanta.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Garyneal, I find your wife's references to your comments as gary-isms insulting and demeaning. As the husband you still retain the position as the family head per the WTS and her treatment of you is out of line per their written instructions to wives with non-jw husbands. It is not respectful at all and does not indicate that she wants you to "see the light" and become a jw.

    *** w07 2/15 p. 20 par. 13 Wives—Deeply Respect Your Husbands ***Wives who have become believers have won over their husbands by their Christlike conduct. At a recent district convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses, a husband said of his Christian wife: "I guess I was a jerk in the way I treated her. Yet, she was very respectful of me. She never once put me down. She didn’t try to force her beliefs on me.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Blondie:

    Sorry it took so long to respond. I am just now going back to some of the old threads that I posted on.

    I remember that WT and I remember we were in a meeting when we went over it. When I told her about it, she was like "I can't believe of all the information that was presented, you chose to remember just that point!" The brother at the meeting elaborated by saying that in one incident, a 'Christian' woman who started studying the 'truth' was told by her non-believing husband that she could not go out that door referring to the front door. She instead, went out the back door. She was very respectful of her husband even though he would show great disrespect and he was eventually won over.

    You're right, when I feel disrespected by my wife I see little point to think that her religion has anything to offer save for the rigid legalism that I used to encounter in the independent fundamental baptist churches. This wikipedia article on that denomination is very accurate based on my personal experience. If it is legalism based solely on the Bible, that is one thing. However, legalism that goes beyond the Bible (which tends to change frequently and contradicts itself often) is something I cannot tolerate.

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