"He that is not against us is for us."

by sd-7 8 Replies latest jw friends

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  sd-7

  Think those words are true? I'd like to think so.

  Went to my home cong.'s meeting on Sunday--got there after it was over, which was convenient. Told elders of my impending marriage, was greeted with immediate suspicion. Not, "That's great! Congratulations!" The first thing the COBOE said to me was, "Is she in 'the truth'?" Another dude, a former elder with two bad marriages and several children under his belt, acted like I'd told him I was amputating an arm. For some odd reason, he acts like he's still an elder and has even that ridiculously provisional [read: non-existent] authority to interrogate people about their personal lives. "Y'all have a chaperone? Don't isolate yourselves. You want Jehovah's blessing on it... If you need somebody to take pictures for you, I can do that." Yeah. I'd rather use a 10-year-old Polaroid camera than ever give money to him to take so much as a picture of my stool sample.

  I quickly started to find out just how dead-on Steven Hassan's book is--conditional love at its finest. The R&F are generally nice people; some of the pioneers and pioneer-groupies can be a pain. Some, not all. Anyway, my brother gave his first public talk on Sunday--my mom more or less forced me to watch it on video. Talk about a sleeping pill. Normally I can at least try to listen, but...geez. An earthquake happening recently was easy fodder for an outline.

  But the Thought Police are getting colder. They want to meet with me, but refuse to divulge why they want to meet with me. The COBOE seemed almost sarcastic when I mentioned not turning in field service time. He scoffed and said, "That's what you think it's about, huh?" I should've looked him dead in the eye and said, "Well, enlighten me, sweetheart. What is it about, exactly?" The fact that they're staying vague indicates that Mom ratted me out by now. But she doesn't know anything to rat about--one witness who has circumstantial evidence is not really a meaningful matter to pursue. Heck, if a child molester doesn't get charged based on one witness who was actually the VICTIM, how the frak can I get charged with anything?

  Anyway, I'm not inclined to meet with them. If they're interested in taking vague accusations to trial, they can have a trial without me. My guess is they want to meet to extract a confession because they have no proof of anything. And I have no answers to give them. Ironic. Even human courts show more concern for justice than the so-called 'theocratic' ones.

  Can't believe my fiancee wants to go to my home cong. They slandered her when we first started dating, and the elders all but said 'good riddance' when she was first DF'd. Why would she want to go back to people like that? I mean, not everyone was like that, but for me, I'd like to be wherever those people are not.

  Meeting tonight. I sometimes think I can be reprogrammed, but when I read the literature (or 'literatrash', as some have called it), all I can see are logical fallacies, scriptures taken out of context, and baseless arguments made. It's impossible to see anything else.

  Oh, here's a funny thought--the October 2009 Awake! on 'family success' criticizes modern therapists and the like for 'changing their opinions'. (!!!!) Does the Borg not realize that they change their opinions ALL THE TIME?? The same logic could be used to render them untrustworthy! Idiots! (sigh)

  Got to try to be calm. The woman I love is worth this. "There's no redemption where I'm going." "I ain't askin'." Take care, folks. Love you all--you're my one respite from the 'spiritual paradise'.

  SD-7
• 

  nelly136

  Why would she want to go back to people like that? ...........you talking a passing visit or wanting reinstatement?
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  sd-7

  Nah--she moved to another cong. and got reinstated thereafter. Now she wants to come back to the cong. that DF'd her--and they slandered her long before she'd committed any kind of 'sin'. Guess I'm just the kind of guy who would take that personally, is all. Emotional and spiritual abuse abound...

  SD-7
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  AGuest

  May you have peace! I would like to respond to a couple/few of your statements, if you will permit me. Thank you!

  The R&F are generally nice people; some of the pioneers and pioneer-groupies can be a pain. Some, not all.

  Your statement is true, dear one; however, it's not the "sheep" that we're supposed to beware... but the "WOLVES" in "sheep's clothing".

  The wolves are "the elders/COs"... who "snatch and scatter" the sheep because they have been "abandoned" by the "hired man"... the GB... who COULD have put a stop to all of this kind of "spiritual harrassment"... but haven't and don't... because THEY don't CARE for the sheep... because the sheep DON'T BELONG to them. They are merely "hired" men... those who do what they do FOR THE PAY... and NOT out of LOVE. John 10:11-15

  The "clothing"... is the NEW personality... formed by "putting on" compassion, kindness, humility, mildness, and long-suffering (patience with others)... all of which ORIGINATE from LOVE... which they are missing at their very core (else, they would be FOR you, vs. against you, yes?) Colossians 3:10-14 (see fnt. vs 14, NWT Ref. Bible).

  These APPEAR to be "sheep" because they have an OUTWARD appearance of being "clothed"... you know, BEING sheep (i.e., having on love)... BUT THEY ARE IMPOSTERS. (I know, I know... there are some current/former elders here who would say, "Hey, I am/was a loving elder/shepherd." To them, I would respond... "Perhaps you were BEFORE and maybe are NOW... but you COULDN'T have been when you were a part of them because a LITTLE leaven... ferments the ENTIRE loaf. My Lord, and thus His Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, perceives these as a GROUP: the 'scribes and Pharisees.' For he did not say, "Woe to YOU, Scribe Johnson" or "Woe to YOU, Pharisee Smith." No, he condemned the actions of the ENTIRE group(s)... which would include ANYONE who was a "part" of them and their "works."

  But the Thought Police are getting colder. They want to meet with me, but refuse to divulge why they want to meet with me. The COBOE seemed almost sarcastic...

  Thus, HIS "nakedness" is showing (see above re "clothing"... which he is sorely lacking)... evident by his very UNkind "desire" for you to "shake in your boots" while wondering what "crime" you've committed and will be "tried" for. Where is the MERCY... and thus, the LOVE... and thus, the CHRIST... in that??)...

  Anyway, I'm not inclined to meet with them. If they're interested in taking vague accusations to trial, they can have a trial without me. My guess is they want to meet to extract a confession because they have no proof of anything. And I have no answers to give them.

  Then prepare to be DF'd. Because that is the VERY reason I was asked to "leave" - after 14 JC meetings, I refused yet another, telling them that I had shared all I had been given and didn't have anything else. Since they were afraid to directly DF me as an "apostate" (I hadn't deviated one wit from what's in the Bible), they did for "disobedience" in that I "refused" to meet with them again. My point? If they want to DF you... they will make up a reason. Your not meeting will put it in their laps. NOT that I think this is bad - I say, by ALL means... LET them "expel" you from their "synagogue". Because Christ himself may just come looking for you as a result. (John 9:34-38)

  Ironic. Even human courts show more concern for justice than the so-called 'theocratic' ones.

  Or at least a bit of mercy...

  Can't believe my fiancee wants to go to my home cong. They slandered her when we first started dating, and the elders

  all but said 'good riddance' when she was first DF'd. Why would she want to go back to people like that?

  I mean, not everyone was like that, but for me, I'd like to be wherever those people are not.

  I (and probably some others here) find it hard to believe that either of you wish to ANYWHERE "those people" are. ANY of their "congregations." Because obviously YOU get that they aren't who they're claiming to be...

  Meeting tonight. I sometimes think I can be reprogrammed, but when I read the literature (or 'literatrash', as some have called it), all I can see are logical fallacies, scriptures taken out of context, and baseless arguments made. It's impossible to see anything else.

  Then WHY... I must ask... are you still LOOKING?

  I'm sorry, I mean that with ALL due and the UTMOST respect. But I just DON'T GET IT: when you KNOW something is false... UNCLEAN... why keep TOUCHING it? For family? Okay, I get that for those who DON'T believe in Christ. But for those that do, how can you have "greater" love... for father, mother, son, daughter, etc.? How can you slave... for TWO masters? I am open to any explanations... just so I can try and wrap my head around it.

  I bid you peace!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  sd-7

  AGuest, you make some very, very excellent points here. I only read the literature so that if necessary, I can pretend to follow the programming. And I want to monitor the thinking of the leadership, look for any signs of unusual impending danger. And, well, I like fiction. They're good at taking facts and filtering them through their own version of truth.

  You are right. I am serving two masters, aren't I? I did it because I need time to prepare her mind for reality. I can't do that easily. And...I have no excuse. I just don't care anymore about good or evil or religion as a whole. The corruption disgusts me to the point where I can't see how God would sit back and allow people to do what the GB does to people. It casts a shadow over it all for me.

  That doesn't bode well for my marriage. It saddens me to no end. But there it is. I am staying on the inside to fight them and I don't care whether I win or not. I just want to set things on fire, metaphorically speaking. I want to find ways to buck the system. I admit, being a rebel is something I've never been. It's very interesting to see how quickly these supposedly loving, Christian people become colder than absolute zero towards people on account of mistakes. As if only the organization, not Christ, forgives us for sins. Sickening, but I don't know of a better way. I'll be alone. I may lose her anyway, may lose all of them. But I'm not afraid to try to fight. I have to stay just to look for an opening. Or just...because I don't care anymore. I tried caring, being honorable. But I'm in a den of thieves. I see no need to even pretend to be honorable anymore. If necessary, I'll use their own methods against them--lies, double standards, stupid defenses of clearly serious wrongs, whatever it takes. That's all I have left. And it's not much.

  SD-7
• 

  minimus

  I just love ex-elders that think of themselves as still elders. They're the worst because they never learned.
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  jamiebowers

  "Y'all have a chaperone? Don't isolate yourselves. You want Jehovah's blessing on it... If you need somebody to take pictures for you, I can do that."

  Uh, was he talking about taking pictures of the upcoming wedding or of the unchaperoned moments of your life? LOL!
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  sd-7

  Good question, jamie! Either would be equally disgusting.
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  AGuest

  May you have peace!

  I totally understand your reasoning and do NOT judge you for it. The Most HOly One of Israel, JAH of Armies, knows what we are made of (as does His Son and Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who came in the likeness of OUR flesh... "sinFUL" - Romans 8:3) and why we do what we do. He is MERCIFUL, SLOW to anger, and ABUNDANT in loving kindness... so I do not wish you to fear. The day WILL come, however... and hopefully it is soon... when you will no longer be ABLE to "touch" that "unclean" thing as doing so in ANY manner will absolutely sicken you... beyond the disgust you have now. Sicken you so that you would rather DIE than keep drinking their poison... which is killing you "spiritually," anyway. I say this based on your comment that:

  The corruption disgusts me to the point where I can't see how God would sit back and allow people to do what the GB does to people.

  It casts a shadow over it all for me.

  Why God allows it is no mystery, dear one: we... His people ASKED for it... and LOVE it. He chose a king FOR us... but we keep calling for kings from among earthling man. And so we suffer the "right" of the "king" that we choose, including the "teachings" of its false prophets. The TRUTH is that it is WE who reject GOD... by rejecting HIS King and Leader... and then blame HIM when those we CHOOSE "lord it over" us. We accept THEIR false prophets and LOVE it when they place heavy yokes upon us... and mislead us. 1 Samuel 8:6-22; Jeremiah 5:29-31; 8:8-13

  Now, you might say, "I didn't choose them," and "I don't love it," but I would have to respond that, by your continuing to be among them, to follow them, and to adhere to even the smallest of their teachings, rather than standing up and saying, "No, you are NOT my leader(s); Christ is" you are, in fact, "choosing them"... over God... because you are DEMONSTRATING which "master" you love MOST.

  Please understand, I am not saying this to offend you or to be contentious. I am saying it because you have let THEIR falsehood... which YOU chose... to cause you to blame GOD. How is God to blame for letting us CHOOSE?

  And for those who say, "I didn't choose; my parents did and so I had no choice," I say that the "right" of a parent is to choose for their child(ren). And so, even then, it is THEY who are to blame... and not the Most Holy One of Israel. For there is not one parent among us who would NOT say, "It's MY child and so MY choice." The Most Hooy One of Israel does not give us the capacity to have children and then say we have no choice on how to raise them. Indeed, He gives us the RESPONSIBILITY. And if WE blow it (or, if our parents blew it)... that is NOT His fault.

  The Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, has been BEGGING us to return to HIM... for millenia. He SENT His Son, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, to CALL us. And even now we don't listen to that One. For didn't HE say that FALSE christs and FALSE prophets would arise... to mislead... IF POSSIBLE... EVEN the CHOSEN ONES? These, however, have convinced you... and most of their membership... that you are NOT of that "class." That the class of chosen ones is a SMALL group... although John, who literally walked with our Lord and was called "beloved" by him, wrote that NO MAN would be able to number the crowd that, along with 144,000 from among the sons of Abraham, would belong to and rule with Christ for 1,000 years... and render sacred service in the temple of God! How can we blame GOD for THEIR craftiness... when we ASK for it?

  Don't blame God, dear sd-7 - blame the "scribes and Pharisees"... those "offspring of vipers. THEY are the culprits. They have already undermined your faith, possibly beyond repair. Only you know that, though.

  I bid you peace, courage... and ears to hear.

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA