Hoping for Her Demise No Different from Craving the Day of JAH

by AGuest 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest

    To the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!

    On many occasions there are posts calling for an all-out exposure of the WTBTS and its practices/doctrines, for some kind of intervention, by government or others, to bring her to her end... and, if possible, in a ball of searing flames. For those who reside in the U.S., I am compelled by holy spirit to remind you that, thankfully (for us) the U.S. Constitution preserves the right of all U.S. citizens to freedom of religion. Unfortunately (for members of the WTBTS and other such organizations), the Constitution doesn't say it has to be a "legit" religion (I mean, just how is that established, actually?)... or even a non-cult religion (ditto). "Religion" is what a person believes it... and its teachings... to be for them. Bottom line, it should be up to the individual members of a nation to choose whom they [and their children] will follow and who/what they want to "rule over" them. It is that way in the eyes of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Joshua 24:15; 1 Samuel 8:7-22

    Keep in mind, please, that although our Lord himself openly exposed the hypocrisy and abuse of the Jewish priests, writers of law (scribes), and on-priestly religious "leaders" (Pharisees/Sadducees, etc.)... as many of us do here... it was only to those folks themselves... and those they were harming. .. that he did so. Much as it is here. He didn't, for example, send out a message to Rome (or even its governor, Pontius Pilate)... and particularly not to any who constituted themselves as "enemies" of the Jews... and ask for intervention on behalf of the misled, misguided, and mistreated Jews... or himself. This is because he realized there was a purpose being fulfilled: just as then, so it is today... people must CHOOSE... themselves... and NOT compelled... as to what they will believe and who they will/will not follow. John 10:1-15

    Now, I know, as does our Lord, that because it seems to take so long for "the wicked" to come to their end one can lose hope. FAITH, however, should keep your hope strong. Look how long it took other wicked systems to fall - hundreds of years, in some cases. But shouldn't we WANT such time to pass? Let me ask you, those of you who may still have loved one in her... do you not recall the admonition of our Lord to "Get OUT of her, MY people... IF you do not want to share WITH HER in her sins and IF you do not want to receive part of her plagues." Those "people," dear ones, may well include YOUR loved ones. Do you really, then, want to see her receive her "plagues" now... while your loved ones are still IN her?

    Dear ones, God is NOT slow respecting ANY of His promises. The TRUTH is that He doesn't wish ANY to be destroyed... and so, by means of His GREAT mercy He allows sufficient time for ALL of His sheep to get out of whatever "city" is slated for destruction. Whether the world in Noah's, day, Sodom/Gomorrah, Egypt, Jerusalem... the WTBTS... whatever.

    Please, then, do NOT be "craving the day of JAH" (Amos 5:18) for there are, hopefully, still many to be saved. I have no loved ones in that harlot, but I know some of you do. Would it be LOVING, then, for ME to call for her demise... even if it meant that YOUR loved ones would be caught inside her gates? Should we not even pray that the "wicked" get it, turn around, get out... and bring as many out with them as they can? The dear Raymond Franz used to among those some at that time called "wicked," the WTBTS Governing Body. And yet, HE got out... to the benefit of MANY here and perhaps many others to come. What, however, if the Most Holy One of Israel had responded to the cry of those during his day in the WTBTS leadership? Mercifully, He did not and many have come out of her.

    Also, if we do crave her demise, how are we any different from her and her members? Is not their primary message the end and destruction of their enemies?? Where is the CHRIST in that? For whose end did our Lord beseech the Father? Did he not ask that even those who put his flesh to death be FORGIVEN?

    But do not worry: her end WILL come; indeed, the "beginning of [her] end" has already begun. But it will be when her time has come, not when we might like it to be. Be patient, then, and long-suffering... for God is not slow and He will not be late. PRAY for your enemies, including these... and all who "go with" them. Because it is in THIS way you will show yourselves merciful and loving and thus PERFECT, like our heavenly Father. To do otherwise is to do what SHE has taught you to do… and think as SHE has taught you to think… and hope as SHE has taught you to hope. To do, think, and hope as SHE does… while decrying HER acts, thoughts, and hopes… is hypocrisy! You cannot condemn her… and yet, do as she does.

    Of course, what each one will do in this regard is his/her own prerogative. We are all free moral agents. I am compelled by holy spirit, however, to set forth the "wisdom" in the words at Proverbs 24:17-19:

    "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice; and when he is caused to stumble, may your heart not be joyful, that JAH may not see and it be bad in HIS eyes and He certainly turn BACK His anger from against him. Do not show yourself to be heated up at evildoers. DO not become envious of wicked people. For there WILL prove to be no future for anyone bad; the very lamp of wicked people WILL be extinguished."

    I, SA, have shared this with you just as I have received it from the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies.

    I bid you peace.

    Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those that go with... and a slave of Christ,


  • bluecanary

    Let's begin counting the ways in which you're wrong. I'll start with one. In Bible times, Jehovah intervened directly. He don't do that no more. Instead, he allows the governments of the earth to exercise authority and keep people safe, even if they have to keep people safe from those who claim to be representing him.

    Wait! Even in Bible times he did use earthly governments to spank his people. Babylon destroying Jerusalem anyone?

    Your appeal is useless to those who think God is slow because he doesn't exist. Why on earth would we sit around waiting for a nonexistent person to take care of things rather than doing something ourselves? That would be stupid.

    If you think most other churches are preaching the destruction of each other you've got your head in a very tight and smelly place. Only small-time cults like the JWs do that. Legitimate churches are preaching love and tolerance without a time limit. Get your facts straight before you start spouting such false information.



    You love everyone..Your as Bad as Mouthy..LOL!!

    For those of you who do not understand Aguest/Shelbys style of writing,I write this for you..

    So you will better understand this insightful person..

    The WBT$ has done a lot of harm and continues to do so..

    Wanting the WBT$ to fall right now is not practical..

    Lets face it..

    The old whore,the WBT$ is a multi-billion dollar organization..It won`t fall anytime soon..

    The best we can do at the moment,is help JW`s who want to get out of that corrupt organization..


    Inform those who are willing to listen..That is where our energy is best spent..

    Wishing Evil,on an evil organization will not accomplish that..

    A person who follows the path of Jesus,wants the best for everyone..

    The corrupt WBT$ will fall when it is time..

    Good thread Shelby


  • steve2

    A thoughtful post. But just checking: Are you implying that "Her demise" refers to the Watchtower Society?

    If so, I would have thought that that organization is infinitesimally insignifcant compared to the mammoth religious groups whose memberships number in the tens, if not hundreds, of millions whose influence, including corrupt practice, clearly overshadows the Watchtower Society.

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Well interpreted Outlaw lol!

    I reckon the whole point of Shelby's message is summarised in this:

    Also, if we do crave her demise, how are we any different from her and her members? Is not their primary message the end and destruction of their enemies??

    That can apply to anyone - of any creed or none.



    Shelby is aware of other corrupt organizations..

    This thread is directed at the WBT$..There is a lot of energy directed at bringing the WBT$ down..

    That same energy could be used to inform JW`s and or,help people leave the WBT$..

    Shelby is a very loving person,she would like to see as many JW`s helped as possible..

    As far as she is concerned,the WBT$ will fall,when the time is right..


  • The Almighty Homer
    The Almighty Homer

    I'm hoping for all religions to come to their demise and final end, humanity for too long have been looking toward the great selective spirits to

    resolve mankind's problems, putting weight and authority to centuries old social morals and ideologies, with disastrous results.

    Ignorance has its foreboding consequences.

    People would very much like to see the WTS. crash and disappear for it has been responsible for ruining the capabilities and possibilities

    of millions of lives just so it can selectively thrive on its own corrupt devious power obtained by the people who were so called shepperd.

  • BabaYaga

    Dear AGuest, in so many ways you are so right!

    Freedom of speech and the right to worship is indeed pretty fundamental, and we should not forget that. HOWEVER... it becomes far more tricky when there are innocent children involved, does it not? If children are in danger, or worse... if they are allowed to die due to misunderstood scriptures, dogma, and mind-control, that is where I have a problem.

    Honestly, if there were not so many ways my family could actually be HARMED by these dangerous dogmas, I would be fine with them believing anything they chose. It is when followers of dogma HARM OTHERS (some who have no voice) that it begins to cross the line of "freedom" of expression.

    I do know what you mean, though, Dear One. I once started a thread about the irony of our JW family praying that we will return while we Ex's who still pray are praying for our JW family to awaken and get out! I do not want to be as judgemental and as dogmatic as I was when I was a JW, even while wishing the pain, suffering, and many DEATHS caused by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society will CEASE.

    Even so, I have to constantly remind myself to wish even these things in love, realizing that the juggernaut called the WTBTS is comprised of a lot of very good and loving people who truly believe that what they are doing is right.

    I tell you truly, Dear AGuest, what I wish is that all following these dangerous practices awaken. I hope that every member has an oppportunity to have their doubts strengthened and their faith shaken, so that they might understand what truly matters. Inactive Witnesses, Active Publishers, Pioneers, Elders, Overseers, and every member of Bethel, up to the members of the Governing Body. My wish is that the crumbling and distruction is only of dangerous dogma.

    I wish for cracks, so that the light can shine through.



    This is a good thread..It deserves a BTT..


  • AGuest

    Dearest Baba - may you have peace! I totally understand where you're coming from. Is it wrong to condemn her wicked practices? No. We absolutely should condemn her wicked practices. My Lord condemned the wicked practices of the religious system of his day in the flesh. Did he pray specifically for the end of the religion? No. He actually said:

    "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her - how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings. But YOU people did not WANT it."

    He then said her house was abandoned to her, which will be the case until the full number of those of the nations have come in. In the meantime, he taught us how WE (members of his Body) should be: NOT like them, but just the opposite. Thus, my message is "Beware the leaven of the Pharisees... which is hypocrisy... which is HER main "sin" is it not? But, of course, thank you for your wish of love and please accept mine!

    Dearest BlueCanary – may you have peace, as well! I am sorry that the message offended you; that truly was not my intention – I did, however, address it to those for whose spirit would bear witness with the truth of it… and I can’t see where that occurred with you, so…

    By the way, you actually corroborate the point I have been given to make, however, that JAH intervened... and HE did so by allowing governments to exercise authority. He did not, however, direct the people of Israel to go to the enemies of Israel for such intervention. There were those of Israel, however, who did "intervene"... by praying to JAH... and asking for forgiveness... on behalf of the errors of Israel. They "stood in the gap" between God and Israel and in some cases it was because of them that the nation of Israel not only turned back, but was forgiven.

    That is the assignment of those I addressed... "the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with." We should know this because it was what OUR Lord did with regard to the corrupt Jewish system, those who corrupted it, and those misled by it. HE intervened... by praying FOR his enemies... and US... and directed us to do the same. For my part, I was compelled by the Holy Spirit to remind my brothers and sisters in Christ to stay true to our vocation... "ambassadors substituting for Christ"... and not for our Adversary, whose purpose would be served if we did allow ourselves to become "like" them, hating our enemies and hoping for their demise, rather than showing love in a SURPASSING way and hoping that, like us, they get it and get out.

    As for your comment “Legitimate churches are preaching love and tolerance without a time limit…” I am not sure which institutions you are referring to as “legitimate,” but I would say that while perhaps that’s true it is a recent phenomena as that hasn’t always been the case… and the “Christ” does not change. A few events, such as the Inquisition, the Conquest, various wars, slavery and its accompanying crimes such as lynching, acts of terrorism, retaliating acts to terrorism that take as it victims civilians, elderly, children, etc., come to mind…

    Dearest Steve2 – Yes, I am referring to the WTBTS as “her.” To know who “she” is one would have to know who Babylon the Great is. It is not the “world empire of false religion” as taught by the WTBTS. Babylon the Great consists of those who received an anointing with holy spirit… and thus became part of the “Bride” of Christ… but rather than remaining true to her “husbandly owner,” Christ, she “commits fornication”… with the “kings of the earth” (those who have their minds upon the earth)… constituting her a harlot. When her “adultery” is brought to her attention, she “kills” (technically or literally) those who are sent to her to reveal her error. THAT is the revelation of the “mystery” of Babylon the Great.

    Modern-day christendom… which includes the WTBTS, so don’t let the smooth taste fool ‘ya… constitutes the “daughters” of Babylon the Great. They are the product of those former members of the Bride of Christ who strike out on their own and set up religions, sects, cults, denominations, organizations, etc., all with the message of follow them and their beliefs/doctrines… rather than sticking to and following the True Shepherd, Christ, and no other. The TRUE Bride of Christ knows it has NO other leader than Christ. It knows it has NO other teacher than the Holy Spirit, the glorified and deified Christ. It follows HIS voice… and no other. Everyone, then, who claims to be a member of the Bride of Christ, and yet, follows the “law” of ANY other man… whether earthling man or a spirit… is committing spiritual adultery and showing him or herself to be a manifestation of Babylon the Great, NOT a member of the Body of Christ.

    And although this particular “daughter,” the WTBTS, may be small in comparison to some of the other “daughters,” she is the most dangerous. How so? Because while all of the others may “preach a different Christ” (i.e., they may involve themselves in the affairs of the world, may endorse and/or engage in war, may blaspheme and utter “inspired expressions” that don’t originate with God…), they do not (1) preach two hopes, and (2) directly “shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men” by using a false message of TWO hopes to discourage her members from eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Christ, which is a commandment FROM Christ and the means by which ones are resurrected to life AND live forever. If one is written in HIS Book, then such one is resurrected by HIM… and thus resurrected to LIFE… eternal. While the others may used such things as a separate clergy/laity class (i.e., we’re all going to heaven, but I’m going to a higher place, etc.), prohibition of Bible reading, false teachings and false prophesy, SHE literally prevents people from coming to Christ by preventing them, either directly or indirectly through her propaganda and “pressure,” from literally entering into his covenant, which is what eating and drinking of his flesh and blood is FOR.

    Dearest Homer – Peace to you! You state:

    “People would very much like to see the WTS crash and disappear for it has been responsible for ruining the capabilities and possibilities of millions of lives just so it can selectively thrive on its own corrupt devious power obtained by the people who were so called shepperd (sic).”

    I am compelled to ask you, what religion hasn’t? When I read posts here I often believe that many are basing their views and assumptions on religion in, say, the past 50 years or so. Dear ones, religion has a very LONG and not-so-pretty history. But, see, that is the “way” of earthling man – in “hard” times we remember; in “good” times, we forget. EVERY religion has a message of “love” and “peace.” Problem is, it is always THEIR version of love and peace, not Christ’s. True, some feed the hungry and care for the poor; however, while their “left” hand is doing these wonderful things, their “right” hand is engaged in far less noble pursuits.

    In addition, how is it that we believe that her demise will be the end of organizations like her? Dear ones, I promise you, the Adversary is already working on her replacement. Whether he will succeed or not I do not know, but every religion has had its “day,” only to be replaced by the next/newest thing. Sometimes that thing is entirely new; sometimes it is merely a resurrection/renewal of some former teaching or major doctrine that became obscure for a time.

    I have said here, dear ones, starting many years back, it’s not up to ME who “gets it” and who doesn’t. I am merely a messenger sent to the Household of God and those who go with. Such ones already know who they are and their spirits will bear witness to the truth that I share, I have no doubt. Thus, I understand that it’s not for everyone… but it is true for Israel and those who go with her… whether they hear… or refrain. Because, as I also said, it is everyone’s individual prerogative as to what they will do in this case. They must choose.

    Dearst SadEmo - The greatest of love and peace to you!


    I bid you all peace!

    Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... and a slave of Christ,


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