Apostle Paul as Roman Soldier

by hamsterbait 21 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  hamsterbait

  It was brought up in another thread that Paul got his Roman citizenship by serving as a soldier for at least 20 years. This was the only way a non-italian non-Roman born could do it.

  I remember an illustration - in one of the big books, like "things in which it is impossible for God to lie" or "life everlasting" where Saul of Tarsus is pictured holding the robes of those who are stoning christians to death.

  He is dressed as a Roman soldier with a metal breast plate. Anybody have a scan of this?

  I am also convinced that his illustration of spiritual armor is based on his training as a Roman soldier. That is where he would have been trained to make and mend tents of course.

  HB
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  sir82

  This was the only way a non-italian non-Roman born could do it.

  Isn't there a scripture somewhere in Acts saying he was a Roman citizen since birth?

  I.e., maybe his father was a soldier, or purchased citizenship rights, or whatever. Surely children of Roman citizens would also be Roman citizens, from birth, wouldn't they?
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  XJW4EVR

  According to Acts 22:28, Paul states to a Roman commander, that he was born a Roman citizen. Whether or not Paul was a Roman soldier is never stated in any Scripture of the New Testament nor by any Patristic writer that I am familiar with. How Paul's father got Roman citizenship is simply speculation. Now if you have some proof, other than your conviction, that Paul was a Roman soldier I would love to see it. Until then, I will stick with Luke's biography of Paul.

  My recollection from My Book of Bible Stories showed Paul in traditional garb for a 1st century AD civilian. I don't have one in possesion any longer (nor do I want one), so I will leave that where it lies.

  Nearly every commentary I have read on Ephesians, ranging from conservative to liberal, seems to be of the opinion that Paul got his idea regarding the spiritual armor from the Roman soldiers that were guarding him.
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  hamsterbait

  I had forgotten that he said he was born Roman. Yet I still remember the illustration.

  HB
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  reniaa

  Acts 23:6 (New International Version)

  6 Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead."

  Acts 22:28
  Then the commander said, "I had to pay a big price for my citizenship." "But I was born a citizen," Paul replied.

  Acts 16:37
  But Paul said to the officers: "They beat us publicly without a trial, even though we are Roman citizens, and threw us into prison. And now do they want to get rid of us quietly? No! Let them come themselves and escort us out."

  The bible shows paul was a trained pharasee under a famous teacher also his dad was one too but Paul was also born a Roman citizen which means his dad will have done something to attain roman citizenship which is then passed onto the children. In the scripture above the commander talks of having bought his citizenship. In those times there were a few ways to get the desired Roman citizenship not least of which is buying it with anough money but the scriptures do not mention how Pauls dad acquired it.

  Jewish tradition talks of Paul being a tentmaker before he studied to be a rabbi pharasee.

  Reniaa
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  hamsterbait

  Thanks Ren -

  Can you check for the pic I spoke of - am sure it is not a phantom memory.

  HB
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  Megachusen

  I'm fairly certain that buying your citizenship was only open to those who were apart of nations who were incredebly loyal to Rome. A pure blood Jew becoming a citizen is unlikely.

  Also, since the Jews were famous for their hatred of Rome, it would be odd for any Jewish person to attempt to join the Auxilium(even if they were allowed to do so).
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  reniaa

  The second way by which Roman citizenship could be gained was slavery. It was known that during the two centuries preceding St Paul's time, thousands of people were deported from the eastern Levant to Italy and made slaves. In the course of time some of these were able to distinguish themselves by their skill and profession and were either freed by their masters or bought their freedom and thus were given Roman citizenship. A remote ancestor of St Paul, after obtaining this citizenship, seems to have returned to his native city Tarsus and re-established the family business. Neither Acts nor his letters give enough information about St Paul's ancestors or parents. He is known to have had a married sister in Jerusalem and a nephew (Acts 23: 16). From one of his letters we learn that he had some distant relatives (Rom 16:7, 11, 21).

  In spite of the gifts he seems to have received from Christian communities for which he expresses his gratitude, most of the time he relied on his own resources, a fact which is often hinted at in his letters and clearly expressed in the one addressed to the Philippians. 'I find myself, to be self-sufficient...still, it was kind of you to share in my distress' (Phil 4: 11,16).
  It is possible that St Paul's family had made their money equipping the Roman legionaries, who used very large tents, made of leather panels stretched together so that rain water would run off. The Roman legions stationed in Syria may not have required leather tents but used the traditional goat-hair tents similar to those of the present day nomads. These are made of the rough cloth manufactured from goat's hair, which in the past was known as cilicium-, and took its name from Cilicia. Tent making might well have embraced not only the manufacture and the repair of these large, military tents, but also a range of related leather and woven goods. Apart from military tents, there would have been considerable demand for awnings, booths and canopies from vendors at market places and elsewhere.

  http://www.aboutkusadasi.com/ephesus/st-paul.html

  hi hamster

  I have not the library to find the piccy you want maybe someone else can?

  Reniaa
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  Megachusen

  Just some speculation here, but I imagine that the name change from the Hebrew "Saul" to the latin "Paullus" might have been an attempt to appear less Jewish to the non-Jewish people he preached to.

  It wouldn't surprise me if Paul faked his citizenship so that he could move about Rome and its provinces preaching unhindered.
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  Narkissos

  Well, another possibility is that Roman citizenship was simply granted to Paul (and Silas, 16:37f!) by the author(s) of Acts... never mentioned in the Pauline epistles ("authentic" or not), it suits so well the political aspect of the book's agenda: portraying Christianity as a politically harmless, philosophically respectable and in every way reasonable religio to a Roman audience (notice how almost all Roman officers are pictured as intelligent and tolerant men, fair and sympathetic to Christianity, inasmuch as they do not allow themselves to be influenced by 'fanatic Jews' for some unavowable reasons). Having Christianity's main representative to the Roman world pictured as a highly educated law-abiding Roman citizen, who is brought to Rome because he appealed to Caesar, could certainly not harm the cause. And would be completely unverifiable a few decades after the alleged facts.