"Nephilim" and the WTBS

by MacHislopp 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello everyone,

    I would like to give , on the subject,

    the actual WTBS teaching v the

    1940’s Rutherford teaching.

    I – actual teaching
    N° 1 *** w94 2/1 5-6 Agents of Evil ***
    The account continues at Genesis 6:4: “The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame.” These hybrid sons born to women and fathered by angels were abnormally strong, “mighty ones.” They were men of violence, or Nephi·lim', a Hebrew word that means “those who cause others to fall down.”
    It is noteworthy that these events later found expression in the legends of ancient civilizations. For example, a 4,000-year-old Babylonian epic describes the superhuman exploits of Gilgamesh, a mighty, violent demigod whose “lust [left] no virgin to her lover.” Another example, from Greek legend, is the superhuman Hercules (or Heracles). Born to Alcmene, a human, and fathered by the god Zeus, Hercules set out on a series of violent adventures after killing his wife and children in a fit of madness. Although such tales were greatly distorted as they passed from generation to generation, they tie in with what the Bible says about the Nephilim and their rebellious angelic fathers.
    N° 2 *** it-2 492-3 Nephilim ***

    Increased Wickedness. “The mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame” that were produced by these marriages, were not men of fame with God, for they did not survive the Flood, as did Noah and his family. They were “Nephilim,” bullies, tyrants, who no doubt helped to make conditions worse. Their angelic fathers, knowing the construction of the human body and being able to materialize, were not creating life, but lived in these human bodies and, cohabiting with women, brought forth children. Their children, “mighty ones,” were therefore unauthorized hybrids. Apparently the Nephilim did not, in turn, have children.
    In Mythology. The fame and dread of the Nephilim, it appears, gave rise to many mythologies of heathen people who, after the confusion of languages at Babel, were scattered throughout the earth. Though the historical forms of the Genesis account were greatly distorted and embellished, there was a remarkable resemblance in these ancient mythologies (those of the Greeks being only one example), in which gods and goddesses mated with humans to produce superhuman heroes and fearful demigods having god-man characteristics.—See GREECE, GREEKS (Greek Religion).

    N°3 *** it-1 1001 Greece, Greeks ***
    There is evidence of Babylonian influence on Greek religion. One ancient Greek fable is nearly a literal translation of an Akkadian original.
    Another poet, Hesiod, probably of the eighth century B.C.E., is credited with systematizing the multitude of Greek myths and legends. Together with the Homeric poems, Hesiod’s Theogony formed the principal sacred writings, or theology, of the Greeks.
    In considering the Greek myths, it is of interest to see how the Bible sheds light on their possible or even probable origin. As Genesis 6:1-13 shows, prior to the Flood, angelic sons of God came to earth, evidently materializing in human form, and cohabited with attractive women. They produced offspring who were called Nephilim, or Fellers, that is, “those who cause others to fall down.” The result of this unnatural union of spirit creatures with humans, and the hybrid race it produced, was an earth filled with immorality and violence. (Compare Jude 6; 1Pe 3:19, 20; 2Pe 2:4, 5; see NEPHILIM.) Like others of the post-Flood times, Javan, the progenitor of the Greek people, undoubtedly heard the account of pre-Flood times and circumstances, likely from his father Japheth, a survivor of the Flood. Note, now, what the writings attributed to Homer and Hesiod reveal.
    The numerous gods and goddesses they described had human form and great beauty, though often being gigantic and superhuman. They ate, drank, slept, had sexual intercourse among themselves or even with humans, lived as families, quarreled and fought, seduced and raped. Though supposedly holy and immortal, they were capable of any type of deceit and crime. They could move among mankind either visibly or invisibly. Later Greek writers and philosophers sought to purge the accounts of Homer and Hesiod of some of the more vile acts attributed to the gods.
    These accounts may reflect, although in greatly expanded, embellished, and distorted form, the authentic account of pre-Flood conditions found in Genesis. A further remarkable correspondency is that, in addition to the principal gods, the Greek legends describe demigods or heroes who were of both divine and human descent. These demigods were of superhuman strength but were mortal (Hercules being the only one of them granted the privilege of attaining immortality). The demigods thus bear a marked similarity to the Nephilim in the Genesis account."
    °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
    II- 1940’s J.F. Rutherford’s teaching

    ** The book “Religion”
    published by the WTBS,Inc., the IBSA, Brooklyn New York,
    USA in the year 1940, by J.F. Rutherford on page 24
    sub-heading - Existence of Demons - gives this view:

    “...Modern-day relious leaders claim that the Nephilim were all
    festroyed at the time of the flood, and hence by thus teaching
    they lure the people in to the trap of the Devil”

    then this part – still on page 24:

    “...All scriptures bearing upon the point show bejond any
    question of doubt that the demons, otherwise designated by
    the Scriptures as “Nephilim” (Genesis 6:4, Revised Version),
    were not destroyed at the time of the flood , but continued their
    operations after the flood and are operating with the Devil even
    to this very day. “

    then comes this – gem - :

    “...To avoid confusion it must be clearly observed thet the “Nephilim”,
    or wicked demon giants, and “ the spirits in prison” to which Jesus
    preached (1 Peter 3:19,20) are entirely separate and distinct from
    each other.

    and also, this other beautiful – gem – (pages 224 and 25):

    “ The Devil and the Nephilim deceived the spiritual creatures desi-
    gnated “the sons of God” and induced them to materialize as men
    and take human for wives, and to raise an offspring by such union,
    and all of such offspring were destroyed in the flood.(See The Watchtower
    1934, pages 263-266). Those “ sons of God”,;who materialize asd
    humans, were imprisoned by the Devil at the time of the flood.-
    See proof , The Watchtower , 1934, page 275).

    As a conclusion read this , on page 25 :

    “..As to the Nephilim , the wicked spirit creatures or demons that
    joined Lucifer in his rebellion, they survived the flood and are yet
    alive, and are the ones that , together with the Devil, now exercise
    power and control over the people and the nations on the earth.”

    Well I hope that this ...kind of teaching, compared

    with today's WTBS version one doesn’t need

    ..any further comments.

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    G'day Mac and Merry Xmas to you from Mrs Ozzie and myself.

    As you say regarding the Nephilim teaching, no further comment is necessary!

    Remember when we would blindly teach this stuff? I can recall having to 'expound' on similar things in District Convention talks. To think I was nervous about giving the talk before thousands, when I should've been more nervous about how on earth I'd get away with repeating it. Surprising really that there isn't more dissent from the R&F at the conventions.

    Cheers,
    Ozzie

    "It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."

    Anonymous

  • 607BCisAbigLIE
    607BCisAbigLIE

    A very good example on how the WT can take folkloric stories meant to learn something valuable ending up trying to proove that the one of the Bible was meant to be true. Legends are meant to explain a valuable lesson of life rather than yo be taken litterally. Even in the Bible I am sure there's a lot of them, including all the ones Jesus told in parabolic examples to explain something thoughfull to His disciple. Are those were meant to be taken litterally? I don't think so.

  • 607BCisAbigLIE
    607BCisAbigLIE

    Beside, the story of the great Rainstorm (i'm not sure if it is the right word to entitle the story of Noah and his familly, since i'm a French Canadian speaking person that can express in English sometimes) may have been written as an example of the Allmighty Power of God, like all folkloric story have its own meaning of itself. It has been used very intensively in the Ancient time. But i'm not trying to interpret something here, i'm just exposing an idea on what it could be taken for.

  • oscartheduck
    oscartheduck

    "[the Nephilim] were not men of fame with God"

    Interesting that, while making sense in the context, outside of it, some phrases become less clear...

    I've often thought about the timing of the flood and the evidence for it.

    I'm unconvinced that it can't be explained another way. I mean, the society's quotes say something like "there is...direct evidence of a flood occuring", when in the book they're taken from i bet it replaces the "..." with "no" :P

    ============================
    The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126 "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible "

  • 607BCisAbigLIE
    607BCisAbigLIE

    Oscartheduck,

    that's a very very good point you get to our attention here. The WTBTS used that kind of teaching many times in their litterature. When they cannot show for sure from which source they take that "direct evidence", they use a endoctrinal technique that is called "straw man" evidence. That comes clear when you seek in profane book from scientists that some statements like that one can be really contradictory of actual archeologic knowledge. And for the one about the flood, there is no evidence yet discovered to confirm that the flood ever occured.

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    I think JFR's teaching on the nephilim, can be used to prove he had a drinking problem that made his writing well sloppy and inconsistant.

    New light replaceing old light and newer light replacing the new light in the space of one publication.

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
  • 607BCisAbigLIE
    607BCisAbigLIE

    i agree with you D Wittshire

    How can someone cope with that kind of teaching? That's pretty much amazing!!

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello everyone,

    I'm so pleased that you have

    enjoyed those nice "...bits",...that I'm planning

    to give you more. Don't worry no long quotes but just

    the essential, just enough and most of the time

    without any need for comments.

    Enjoy the break...while it lasts and receive my

    sincere greetings. James Charles MacHislopp

    P.S. I'll have a long
    break..very soon.

    soon

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