Who / What is the Faithful & Discreet Slave?

by LouBelle 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • LouBelle

    I shall come back and put in my findings. In my research I've used the bible - a number of them - and will list them once I've finished. I'm posting this up for now so that everyone can have their 2c and to keep my word (that I would get back to this topic on Wednesday once I was at work - I'm too busy to type everything up right now.....)

    Just a couple of points to think about when formulating an answer - for Jws & none Jws.

    * consider if this is a literal ""class"" of people or if it's more figurative

    * the bible - if inspired by god, needs to be a book that is significant in all ages of man

    * read the passage in context and check cross references to get a better understanding of slave & what it may mean

    * where do you get your information - is it from the bible/publications/net/spiritual books & please list them so we can cross reference.

    I, at the start, do not believe that it is a class of people as the JWs do - namely the Governing Body - also known as the leaders of the JWs. I do not believe they are inspired of god and they definately do not feed their people spiritually. They do not know what the everyday witness actually needs on any level, and this can be seen by the regurgitated drival they keep on feeding these spiritually staved souls. They put themselves in places of power and prominance and no one is allowed to question their authority (even satan was allowed to question the almighty) They know full well what it is they are doing, they proclaim to be lead of the true gods' spirit and yet the lies they spew are taken as truth. That is my personal view of the JW F&D Slave - the Leaders of JWisn.

    I'll post my findings from the bible soon.

  • oompa

    wow lou.......kinda cryptic!.......but what is weird to me that slaves follow.....they do not lead......oompa

  • I quit!
    I quit!

    Without the JW glasses on it became obvious that this was a story created to illustrate a point. It wasn't an esoteric message pointing to a person or class of people in the future anymore that the parable of the ten virgins was. It should be fairly obvious why they never claimed Russell and Rutherford were two of the virgins mention in that parable.

  • Quirky1

    Being a slave sounds like a bondage thingy to me..

  • kurtbethel

    Do you want the answer straight up, or sugar coated?

    Watchtower answer, depends on when and who you ask.

    - the entire Christian congregation, collectively. "that servant (the whole body of Christ)" WT November 1881 pg. 291

    - Charles T. Russell. "The Watch Tower unhesitatingly proclaims brother Russell as 'that faithful and wise servant.'" WT March 1, 1917, page 6049 reprints

    - Then, in 1927, the Society received "new light" and returned to the earlier teaching that the "faithful and wise servant" was the Christian congregation. WT 1927, as referenced by Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, Watchtower Society, page 626

    - the "slave" is made up of all the remaining "anointed class" (144,000), and represented by the Governing Body. WT current light, as published ad nauseum.

    - the Governing Body itself, as taught in recent secret WT edition published for initiates

    The real "heartfelt" answer, from my current understanding

    The question seems to be a rhetorical one, not seeking the identity of a specific individual, nor a parable or prophecy about any specific people or individual. The question is open ended, to get one to consider the attributes and actions presented in the framing of it, to apply to ones own actions and attributes.

    Considering the question, the listener may ask of themself, "Am I sharing this gospel message, and is my life conducted in a way that is harmonious with the teachings Jesus has given me?"

    One can also look at others and use the framing of the question to evaluate if they are in harmony with the gospel message. This view of the slave would be particularly threatening to the Watchtower corporation, as its history of false prophecies and wavering doctrines would have it coming up wanting compared to this standard. Its practices concerning pedophiles and bloodguilt of people who died by following its teaching could have it looking like the "evil slave" mentioned in the following verses.

    A possibility

    LouBelle, you might even fit the description of the Faithful & Discreet Slave. That would be amazing to know someone who does. Does it not warm your heart?

  • LouBelle

    NIV - Matthew 24:45 – 51: Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, “my master is staying away a long time, and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Cross reference of faithful servant to Matthew 25: 21-23 – speaks of the master handing talents to different servants – and each servant went off and either invested it, bartered or dug a hole in the ground and buried it.

    We all know that the JW belief on who this servant has changed a number of times – as KurtBethel pointed out there was a time when it referred to a group, then one man Russell, then back to a closely knit group of JWs made up the 144 000 (remnant to be number at 10 000 or so – when I was in the faith 4 years ago it was 8 000 – their numbers are growing??) The Faithful and Discreet Slave is described as a "class" of Christians that operates under the direct control of Jesus Christ. (from Wikipedia)

    If this is the case that they were operating under the direct control of Jesus – there is a serious problem! The stand on many doctrines has zigzagged and changed so many times that it is difficult to keep track of what the Governing Body maintains as truth. When Christ spoke something, he never went back on it or changed it, or said he meant something else – he spoke the truth! One cannot go back and change truth – as the initial truth would then be a lie. You can elaborate on the truth or add on to it, but your initial truth would be able to stand up to scrutiny. (this is just logical thinking)

    Imperfection of men I hear the JWs “reason”. Sure sure, man is imperfect and Jesus Christ was perfect. So when God spoke through imperfect Moses, Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, Hezekiah, Jacob, David, Saul - did God make mistakes or give them wrong information? Or did those things God prophesied through these imperfect people come to be? Do not make imperfection an excuse for all the blunders and failed prophesies.

    So who is this servant then? Is it a group that one can point too and say “it’s them”, or is it an individual? My logical reasoning tells me that if this is the word of God, the bible has to be valid at any given age in mans’ history and has to be able to be interpreted in that age, so it cannot point to a class/group/individual. Plus you have to take the WHOLE bible into account when you read even one verse – see how that verse fits in with what the bible is saying in general.

    Matthew 24 & 25 is speaking about a time when the end comes and has many illustrations/parables that let us know what we should be doing when that end comes. The end of what though? The earth? Wickedness? The end of spiritual darkness? And where are we to find our answers? In man?

    Does not the word of God say that you will be taught of God and not of man? So why do the JWs look to imperfect men, that have clearly blundered over and over again to be their leaders, why do they not look to God and be lead of his spirit, that can give you your spiritual food when you need it.

    I urge JWs to really consider deeply the things of God and to meditate and reason on the word of God and to be lead of spirit, instead of man.

    If you don’t know who that faithful & discreet slave is – I can’t tell you – it’s not for me to reveal these things to you.

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