Challenge #4 (INTELLECT) ~ to Greg Stafford / Jason BeDuhn / Serious JWs / Fred Coulter (CofG)

by 4examp 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  4examp

  Personality is expressed, demonstrated & manifested by: Emotion, Intellect, Will.

  Challenge #4 ~ Do you agree Scripture proves The Holy Spirit can / does manifest INTELLECT?

  1. entunkano (G1793,5x) = primarily to fall in with, meet with in order to converse, then to make petition, especially to make INTERCESSION, PLEAD with a person
  - Rom.8:27 ~ THE SPIRIT ... is PLEADING in accord with God FOR holy ones
  - Rom.8:34 ~ Christ Jesus is the one... who ALSO PLEADS FOR US
  - Heb.7:25 ~ Christ Jesus is always alive to PLEAD FOR them

  2. huper - entunkano (G5241,1x) = to make a petition or INTERCEDE on BEHALF of another... is used in Rom.8:26 of the work of THE HOLY SPIRIT in making INTERCESSION
  - Rom.8:26 ~ THE SPIRIT itself PLEADS FOR US

  3. ereunao (G2045,6x) = to SEARCH, TRACE, investigate, explore
  - Rom.8:27 ~ The Father who SEARCHES the hearts knows what the MIND of THE SPIRIT is
  - Rev.2:18,23 ~ The Son... SEARCHES the inmost thoughts & hearts
  - 1Cor.2:10 ~ THE SPIRIT SEARCHES into all things, even the DEPTHS of God

  Rom.11:33,34 - O the DEPTH of God's riches & wisdom & knowledge! How UNSEARCHABLE His judgments & past TRACING out His ways!
  For "WHO has come to know Jehovah's MIND...?" [Answer = 1Cor.2:10 above]

  4. eidon (G1492,666x) = see, perceive, know
  - 1Cor.2:11 ~ no one has come to KNOW the things of God, except THE SPIRIT of God.

  5. phronema (G5427,4x)
  - "what was has in MIND, the THOUGHTS & PURPOSES" (Thayer's Lexicon, p.658)
  - "frame of THOUGHT, WILL, MIND" (Analytical Lexicon, p.429)
  - "the word is used of the MIND of THE HOLY SPIRIT" (Vine's, v.3, p.70)
  Rom.8:6 ~ MINDING of the flesh ~ KI & NWT
  Rom.8:6 ~ MINDING of the spirit ~ KI & NWT
  Rom.8:7 ~ MINDING of the flesh ~ KI & NWT
  Rom.8:27 ~ MINDING of the spirit ~ KI
  Rom.8:27 ~ MEANING of THE SPIRIT ~ NWT

  WHY the difference in v.27, from v.6 & v.7 ?
  WHY the difference in v.27 between the NWT & the KI ?
  WHY the difference when phronema is only found 4x & all with identical spelling in Greek ?
  WHY the difference, especially in view of the following quote:
  "To each major word we have ASSIGNED ONE MEANING and have held to that meaning as far as the context permitted."
  (KI - Foreword, p.10, 2nd para.)???

  Here's the WT answer ~ w90 12/1 30 (Questions From Readers) states: "...phronema could have been rendered in Rom.8:27 as 'minding.'
  BUT holy spirit is not a person that actually thinks or has its own thinking."

  The WT should have used "mind" instead of "minding".
  The WT should have used "minding" instead of "meaning".
  BUT their bias against "THE SPIRIT THE HOLY" prevents honest translation.
  See DOKEO (next) to discover whether "holy spirit... has its own thinking".

  6. DOKEO (G1380) is found 62 times (excl. Lk.17:9) ~ in 24 grammatical forms ~ translation is from the KI
  1. dokei ~ seems (Mt.17:25), it seems (Mt.18:12; 21:28; 22:17; Lk.10:36; Ac.25:27), seems it (Mt.26:66), does it seem (Mt.22:42), is seeming (Lk.22:24; 1Cor.11:16), is it seeming (Jn.11:56), it is seeming (Heb.12:11), he is seeming (Ac.17:18), thinks (Phil.3:4), is thinking (1Cor.3:18; 8:2; 14:37; Gal.6:3; Ja.1:26), he thinks (Lk.8:18)
  2. dokien ~ to be thinking (Lk.19:11)
  3. dokies ~ are you thinking (Mt.26:53)
  4. dokeite ~ are you thinking (Lk.12:51; Heb.10:29; Ja.4:5), are thinking (Jn.5:39), you are thinking (Mt.24:44; Lk.12:40; 2Cor.12:19), do you think (Lk.13:2,4), be thinking you (Jn.5:45)
  5. dokee ~ may seem (Heb.4:1)
  6. dokoumen ~ we are thinking (1Cor.12:23)
  7. dokoun ~ seeming (Heb.12:10)
  8. dokounta ~ seeming (1Cor.12:22)
  9. dokountes ~ seeming (Mk.10:42; Gal.2:6,9)
  10. dokounton ~ seeming (Gal.2:6)
  11. dokousa ~ thinking (Jn.20:15)
  12. dokousin ~ they are imagining (Mt.6:7), seeming (Gal.2:2)
  13. doko ~ I am thinking (1Cor.4:9; 7:40)
  14. dokon ~ thinking (1Cor.10:12)
  15. doxantes ~ (ones) having thought (Ac.27:13)
  16. doxee ~ should think (Jn.16:2), might think (2Cor.11:16)
  17. doxeete ~ you should presume (Mt.3:9)
  18. doxo ~ I should seem (2Cor.10:9)
  {the "e" in front of words 19 - 24, denotes past tense}
  19. e-dokei ~ he was thinking (Ac.12:9)
  20. e-dokoun ~ they were thinking (Lk.24:37), were thinking (Jn.13:29)
  21. e-doxa ~ thought (Ac.26:9)
  22. e-doxan ~ thought (Mk.6:49; Jn.11:13)
  23. e-doxe ~ it seemed (Lk.1:3), it seemed (Ac.15:22)
  24. e-doxen ~
  - Acts 15:25 - IT SEEMED (edoxen) TO US
  - Acts 15:28 - IT SEEMED (edoxen) TO THE SPIRIT THE HOLY & TO US

  7. Plus the 40 Ways The Holy Spirit COMMUNICATES, obviously demonstrates intelligence.
  1. hears / understands (true listening is a vital part of communication, for God & man)
  2. consults (fundamental part of relationship in the Godhead ~ God is One)
  3. initiates (fundamental part of communication ~ consults, then initiates / wills)
  4. wills (choosing how, what, & when to communicate / do)
  5. searches (examines) (thoroughly researches His response)
  6. mulls / thinks / favours (before communicating His conclusions & decisions)
  7. loves (revealing the basis of His communication & actions)
  8. shares (revealing His openness & willingness to communicate, bless, & gift us)
  9. comforts (revealing His desire to minister to us, not just communicate through us)
  10. intercedes (pleads) (revealing His care & support for the battles in / for our lives)
  11. hyper-intercedes (pleads) (revealing His intense care)
  12. hyper-intercedes (pleads) transcendently (with wordless, Divine-Heart-to-Heart communication)
  13. commissions (calls / summons)
  14. bears witness
  15. bears joint witness
  16. testifies
  17. declares
  18. teaches
  19. guides us into truth
  20. reveals
  21. spells it out for us
  22. reminds
  23. warns
  24. forbids
  25. helps us pray
  26. helps us pray & praise via tongues
  27. helps us communicate love
  28. speaks through dreams
  29. speaks through visions
  30. speaks through humans
  31. speaks through humans, giving prophecy
  32. speaks through humans, giving Divine knowledge
  33. speaks through humans, giving Divine wisdom
  34. speaks through Scripture (proving He is The Author of Scripture)
  35. speaks directly (with His Personal Voice)
  36. speaks directly & expressly (articulate, deliberate, distinct, emphatic, explicit, intentional, pointed, specific, unambiguous, unequivocal)
  37. speaks directly in responsive conversation
  38. speaks directly in conversation & with repetition
  39. invites (you to "hear" the evidence, & respond to His invitation)
  40. enables us to be born in spirit, & communicate / understand spiritual things
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  Piercingtheveil81

  This is exactly why I left Christianity because of this confusion. The bible contains many different and contradicting views of God as well as other doctrines. Be careful and take heed.

  "Say,"O People of the book! Do not exceed the limits in your religion going beyond the truth, and do not follow the useless desires of people who went wrong in old times who misled many, and wandered from the even path" Quran 5:77

  "They surely lie who say, "Allah is one of three in a trinity". There is no God except One Allah. If they do not stop from their word, a painful penalty will surely fall upon the liars amongst them. Why do they not turn to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is often Forgiving most Merciful. Messiah (Christ), son of Maryam (Mary) was no more than an messenger, (and there were) many messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They both had to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah does make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are misguided far from the truth" Quran 5:73-75

  Lets stick to the path and religion of Abraham (upon whom be peace)!
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  4examp

  Hi PTV,
  Sorry for the confusion you've experienced.
  I agree that we should follow the path of faith Abraham followed.
  How about creating a new topic that discusses your pain, journey & viewpoint?

  Mt.22:29 ~ But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.
  Mt.22:32 ~ 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

  Mt.22:37 ~ And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

  Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
  Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is {only} a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
  Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as {referring} to many, but {rather} to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
  Gal 3:17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came 430 years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
  Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
  Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
  Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one {party only;} whereas God is {only} one.
  Gal 3:21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
  Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
  Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
  Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
  Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
  Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
  Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
  Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
  Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
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  yadda yadda 2

  Here's challenge #1 to you. How about COMMON SENSE and no more WARPED SCRIPTURAL REASONING claiming that God is 3 persons in 1 and other such patently ridiculous trinitarian nonsense.
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  TheOldHippie

  Agree, yadda.
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  4examp

  As a 4year-old girl likes to say: "Calm down boys, calm down."

  I didn't mention a single thing about a Trinity, other than if a Scripture verse happens to mention about such a concept.