faith a virtue?

by John Doe 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • John Doe
    John Doe

    "The good, say the mystics of spirit, is God, a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive- a definition that invalidates man's consciousness and nullifies his concepts of existence...Man's mind, say the mystics of spirit, must be subordinated to the will of God... Man's standard of value, say the mystics of spirit, is the pleasure of God, whose standards are beyond man's power of comprehension and must be accepted on faith....The purpose of man's life...is to become an abject zombie who serves a purpose he does not know, for reasons he is not to question.

    For centuries, the mystics of spirit had existed by running a protection racket - by making life on earth unbearable, then charging you for consolation and relief, by forbidding all the virtues that make existence possible, then riding on the shoulders of your guilt, by declaring production and joy to be sins, then collecting blackmail from the sinners.

    ...if devotion to truth is the hallmark of morality, then there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.... the alleged short-cut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short-circuit destroying the mind."

    Ayn Rand

    I like that, a short circuit destroying the mind.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    With knowledge comes faith; with faith, comes even more knowledge.

    The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

    ~Sylvia Watson~

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    A recent study has concluded that those of faith are less critical of their own errors than non-believers. Basically, the faithful don't care so much when they get something wrong.

    Religious people less anxious, brain activity shows

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    That's because knowledge leads us faithful to be forgiving and tolerant of ourselves as well as others.

    Faith gives us the strength to persevere until all matters are put right again.

    Sylvia

  • John Doe
    John Doe

    Rand trumps Watson, my dear Sylvia.

  • John Doe
    John Doe
    That's because knowledge leads us faithful to be forgiving and tolerant of ourselves as well as others.
    Faith gives us the strength to persevere until all matters are put right again.
    Sylvia

    Or in other words, content with ignorance. For the responsible person, this is not an option.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Tee hee hee.

    So saith the Incognito One.

    Sylvia

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    How do things stand in this case?—these people who say no today, these outsiders, these people who are determined on one point, their demand for intellectual probity, these hard, strong, abstemious, heroic spirits, who constitute the honour of our age, all these pale atheists, anti-Christians, immoralists, nihilists, these sceptics, ephectics, spiritually hectic (collectively they are all hectic in some sense or other), the last idealists of knowledge, the only ones in whom intellectual conscience lives and takes on human form nowadays—they really do believe that they are as free as possible from the ascetic ideal, these "free, very free spirits." And yet I am revealing to them what they cannot see for themselves, for they are standing too close to themselves. This ascetic ideal is also their very own ideal. They themselves represent it today. Perhaps they are the only ones who do. They themselves are its most spiritual offspring, the furthest advanced of its troops and its crowd of scouts fighting at the very front, its most awkward, most delicate, most incomprehensibly seductive form. If I am any kind of solver of puzzles, then I want to be that with this statement! . . . They are not free spirits—not by any stretch—for they still believe in the truth. . .

    When the Christian crusaders in the Orient came across that unconquered Order of Assassins, that free-spirited order par excellence, whose lowest ranks lived a life of obedience of the sort no order of monks attained, then they received by some means or other a hint about that symbol and motto, which only the highest ranks kept as their secret, "Nothing is true. Everything is permitted." . . . Well now, that was spiritual freedom. With that the very belief in truth was cancelled. . . Has a European, a Christian free spirit ever wandered by mistake into this proposition and its labyrinthine consequences? Has he come to know the Minotaur of this cavern from his own experience? . . . I doubt it. More that that: I know differently. Nothing is more immediately foreign to people set on one thing, these so-called "free spirits," than freedom and emancipation in this sense. In these matters they are more firmly bound, because they believe in the truth, as no one else does, firmly and unconditionally.

    Perhaps I understand all this from too close a distance: that admirable philosophical abstinence which such a belief requires, that intellectual stoicism, which ultimately does not permit one to affirm just as strongly as it forbids one to deny, that desire to come to a standstill before the facts, the factum brutum [brute fact], that fatalism of the "petits faits" [small facts] (what I call ce petit faitalisme [this small factism]), that quality with which French science nowadays seeks a sort of moral precedence over German science, the attainment of a state where one, in general, abandons interpretation (violating, emending, abbreviating, letting go, filling in the cracks, composing, forging, and the other actions which belong to the nature of all interpretation). Generally speaking, this attitude expresses just as much virtuous asceticism as any denial of sensuality (basically it is only one mode of this denial). However, what compels a person to this unconditional will for truth is the faith in the ascetic ideal itself, even though it may be for him an unconscious imperative. We should not deceive ourselves on this point—it is a belief in a metaphysical value, the value of truth in itself, something guaranteed and affirmed only in that ideal (it stands or falls with that ideal).

    Strictly speaking, there is no scientific knowledge at all which stands "without pre-suppositions." The idea of such a science is unimaginable, paralogical. A philosophy, a "belief," must always be there first, so that with it scientific knowledge can have a direction, a sense, a border, a method, a justification, an existence. (Whoever thinks the reverse, whoever, for example, is preparing to place philosophy "on a strictly scientific foundation," first must place, not just philosophy, but also truth itself on its head—the worst injury to decency one could possibly give to two such venerable women!).

    Friedrich Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals, III, 24.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, not yet realized. If it is based on sound science and past history, it is perfectly acceptable--one should be able to have faith that if they turn on the light, they are going to get light. One should be able to have faith that, if you open a browser window in your computer, you are going to be able to use it to browse the Internet.

    When such faith is based on a promise only, that's when it becomes damaging. Someone tells you that if you do something, you go to heaven and if you do something else, you go to hell. There is no reasonable evidence for either outcome. Chances are, the thing that gets you to heaven will benefit the organization that is making said promise, and is a scam. This also applies to faith in the New Order--if you are not willing to look for evidence, you are likely to be scammed.

    Worst is blind faith. And all religions, even those who explicitly deny that they require blind faith, do in fact require it. Christian religions demand faith in the Bible and in the leaders' interpretations of it. Islam religions demand faith in the Quran and the leaders' interpretations of it. And, such faith is always misplaced since the Bible and the Quran are both full of lies, and the leaders add more lies to benefit themselves. And faith blinds one to the possibility that they are wrong--this is like going south on a highway based on a bad map telling you that it will eventually head north, when you need to go north. Faith in that bad map (the Bible or Quran) will keep you southbound, headed away from where you want to to. And it will prevent you from seeing that the map is bad while you are headed toward the south coast when you needed to go north. Eventually, you miss whatever you were headed to, and lose the benefits.

    With religion, you head toward stagnation because the Bible and Quran (both bad maps) lead you that way. You are headed away from prosperity, when both maps tell you that the highway is bound toward happiness and prosperity. Eventually, you reach the end of your life, and miss what you set out for. And faith is to blame, not only for getting you on a bad path, but for keeping you there right up to the dead end.

  • tympan
    tympan

    That's because knowledge leads us faithful to be forgiving and tolerant of ourselves as well as others.

    You must be joking, snowbird!

    The most vicious and protracted of human conflicts are rooted in disputes about interpretations of god. Faith leads to a much greater level of intolerance.

    Look at the the wave of bombings and violence that resulted from the publication of a cartoon in Denmark a little while back. When people professing faith are willing to kill other people on the basis of cartoon, then I think the world would be a much better place without religious faith.

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