How to reply to creationists

by Caedes 8 Replies latest social current

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/02/how_to_respond_to_requests_to.php

    why aren't members of your institute publishing their ideas in prominent peer-reviewed journals such as Science, Nature, or the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences? If you want to be taken seriously by scientists and scholars, this is where you need to publish. Academic publishing is an intellectual free market, where ideas that have credible empirical support are carefully and thoroughly explored. Nothing could possibly be more exciting and electrifying to biology than scientific disproof of evolutionary theory or scientific proof of the existence of a god. That would be Nobel Prize winning work, and it would be eagerly published by any of the prominent mainstream journals.

    One does wonder why the creationists don't put up or shut up. Is it because they know that they have not one shred of empirical evidence for their dogma?

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    Intelligent Design promoters (aka Creationists, though they'll deny it) have an agenda. They want the Christian God, prayer, and the Bible back in public schools and evolution out.

    PSB aired a documentary last week about the Dover Area School Board's attempts (in Pennsylvania. I'm so proud) in 2005 to prove that intelligent design is a valid scientific theory and should be taught alongside evolution in the classroom. They were sued by some of the parents and lost in a federal district court. It was proved during trial that the two leaders on the school board lied about their motives -- they didn't care about the scientific method, they just wanted religion back in the schools.

    From the NOVA program --

    The school board's statement:

    The Pennsylvania Academic Standards require students to learn about Darwin's Theory of Evolution and eventually to take a standardized test of which evolution is a part.

    Because Darwin's Theory is a theory, it continues to be tested as new evidence is discovered. The Theory is not a fact. Gaps in the Theory exist for which there is no evidence. A theory is defined as a well-tested explanation that unifies a broad range of observations.

    Intelligent Design is an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin's view. The reference book, Of Pandas and People, is available for students who might be interested in gaining an understanding of what Intelligent Design actually involves.

    With respect to any theory, students are encouraged to keep an open mind. The school leaves the discussion of the Origins of Life to individual students and their families. As a Standards-driven district, class instruction focuses upon preparing students to achieve proficiency on Standards-based assessments.

    The teachers' response, delivered in a memo to Dover school superintendent Richard Nilsen:

    Re: Reading Statement on Intelligent Design

    We have individually reviewed the statement you presented yesterday for presentation to our students at the beginning of the Biology unit dealing with evolution. You have indicated that students may "opt-out" of this portion of the class and that they will be excused and monitored by an administrator.

    We respectfully exercise our right to "opt-out" of the statement portion of the class. We will relinquish the classroom to an administrator and we will monitor our own students. This request is based upon our considered opinion that reading the statement violates our responsibilities as professional educators as set forth in the Code of Professional Practice and Conduct for Educators promulgated by the Professional Standards and Practices Commission and found at 22 Pa. Code section 235.1 et.seq. As noted in the introductory paragraph of the Code, section 235.2 (a): "Generally, the responsibility for professional conduct rests with the individual professional educator." Further, the Code provides in section 235.2 (b): "This chapter makes explicit the values of the education profession. When individuals become educators in this Commonwealth, they make a moral commitment to uphold these values."

    Central to the teaching act and our ethical obligation is the solemn responsibility to teach the truth. Section 235.10 (2) guides our relationships with students and provides that "The professional educator may not Knowingly and intentionally misrepresent subject matter or curriculum."

    INTELLIGENT DESIGN IS NOT SCIENCE. INTELLIGENT DESIGN IS NOT BIOLOGY. INTELLIGENT DESIGN IS NOT AN ACCEPTED SCIENTIFIC THEORY.

    I believe that if I as the classroom teacher read the required statement, my students will inevitably (and understandably) believe that Intelligent Design is a valid scientific theory, perhaps on par with the theory of evolution. That is not true. To refer the students to "Of Pandas and People" as if it is a scientific resource breaches my ethical obligation to provide them with scientific knowledge that is supported by recognized scientific proof or theory.

    Reading the statement places us in violation of the following ethical obligations: Section 235.3 of the Code requires Professional educators to develop "sound educational policy" and obligates us "to implement that policy." Section 235.3 (b) makes it explicit that "Professional educators recognize their primary responsibility to the student and the development of the student's potential. Central to that development is the professional educator's valuing the pursuit of truth; devotion to excellence; acquisition of knowledge; and democratic principles." The same section goes on to provide: "Educators encourage and support the use of resources that best serve the interests and needs of students. Within the context of professional experience, the educator and the student together explore the challenge and the dignity of the human experience." Section 235.4 (b) (2) provides: "Professional educators shall be prepared, and legally certified, in their areas of assignment. Educators may not be assigned or willingly accept assignments they are not certified to fulfill." Section 235.5(b) (8) provides: "Professional educators shall be open-minded, knowledgeable and use appropriate judgment and communication skills when responding to an issue within the educational environment." Section 235.4 (b) (10) provides: "Professional educators shall exert reasonable effort to protect the student from conditions which interfere with learning or are harmful to the student's health and safety."

  • wobble
    wobble

    "where ideas that have credible empirical support are carefully and thoroughly investigated"

    This is true of the places mentioned,where the anti-evolution people have a case though,is that so much that is presented as proven fact either has not, or more likely cannot, be supported empirically.

    Of course the God squad cannot prove empirically that he exists,apart from the observable phenomena of having believers,then we are into a Dub style circular argument proof!

    My one fear in all of this is that enlightenment may be the loser,some scientists have been shown to change their conclusions or perhaps their findings because they do not fit what is present scientific orthodoxy,and Dawkins or somebody will call them an idiot.They are afraid to go against "Present truth"

    Also approaching research with a mind not open to any and all possibilities is not a true scientific approach.

    Love

    Wobble

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    Wobble,

    Would you care to show me where science is presenting a hypothesis as if it were a proven theory? You state that "so much" is presented as proven fact so it should be very easy for you to provide some examples!

    The fact that an idea has a lot of believers has no bearing on the veracity of the idea. It is not a circular argument, it is no argument whatsoever.

    You are entirely incorrect, any scientist would love to disprove evolution (a theory that is eminently falsifiable unlike creationism) as it would make them the most famous scientist on the planet.

    Perhaps you could provide an example of a scientist changing their findings to match "scientific orthodoxy"? All science is subject to change based on where the evidence points, the big difference to witness "present truth" is that scientists can admit to changes based on new evidence. Of course the popular misconception that science is rewritten is entirely false, it is very rare for science to do a complete about face. Relativity for example, did not overthrow Newtonian physics; it merely showed that the rules were not universal. Newtonian physics is still used the world over. A GU theory will not overthrow Newton or Einstein, in fact any new theory must be compatible with what we already know.

    Fortunately, science is not open to the supernatural (by definition) so cannot be open minded as most people mean the phrase, however scientists are always open to the idea of changing current scientific theory, it is the difference between being einstein and being just another scientist.

    The mathematics doesn't lie!

  • wobble
    wobble

    Dear Caedes,

    I probably did not make my concerns clear,firstly I was referring to the way things are presented by poor educators and the Press ,T.v etc,"as fact ,that cannot be proven empirically" Many of these things may well be "fact" in the scientific sense,but the false impression is given,to impressionable youngsters, that nothing more is to be learned on the subject,and yet these are the minds most likely to produce new hypotheses for the scientific world to work with.

    As to the falsification of evidence,or witholding of data,to advance ones own theory there are plenty of examples.A particular instance which was motivated by a desire not to upset Scientific Orthodoxy lies far back in the recessses of my strange mind,if I can drag it out I will,it maybe came from an Awake magazine or something so may not bear scrutiny! You were right to call me on that one!

    My motive in posting what I did is to try to support the many who feel that educators should be free to teach Evolution Theory as scientific fact,but also free to teach an examination of an opposing view however wacky so the student can see all sides.

    Certainly Creationism should not be taught as scientific,where are the facts?

    Hence discussion of creationism may not be appropriate in a science class,why waste time?

    A well rounded education should encourage the open mind in the scientific sense of considering any possibility presented, in the light of the evidence.

    Love

    Wobble

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    "Afraid to speak against 'present truth'"??

    Go to a scientific meeting, talk or conference- you will see scientists trying to rip holes in one another's findings and ideas left and right. There is no loyalty.

    If there is any faulty or weak evidence, proof or statistics in one's research it will be dragged into the light of day faster than Sarah Palin can wink atcha!!

  • Caedes
    Caedes
    My motive in posting what I did is to try to support the many who feel that educators should be free to teach Evolution Theory as scientific fact,but also free to teach an examination of an opposing view however wacky so the student can see all sides.

    Wobble,

    Would you support the teaching of astrology alongside astronomy or alchemy alongside chemistry? The problem is not with science teachers wanting to giving an understanding of critical thinking, the problem is theists wanting to teach creationism (in whatever form they are calling it) within a science class as if it had any sort of scientific credibility.

    I couldn't agree more regarding a well rounded education, critical thinking should be encouraged in all areas of education.

    Kudra,

    Absolutely, there is nothing more likely to get a scientist interested than being able to pick a big hole in someone else's hypothesis.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Dear Caedes, No I would not support the teaching of wacky ideas alongside,in the sense of giving them credence,but it does help if you know what these things are so as not to waste time on them,so educators cannot be restrained from even a mention of them.

    But what I would love to see is an education system that encourages an Einstein or Stephen Hawking to think free of the constraints that can be imposed by thinking that a scientific fact cannot be overturned,hence the need to see that erroneous theories like fixed Continents,for example, can be overthrown once Tectonic plates were understood.

    So many young people are still vulnerable due to educators not doing very well,hence cults recruiting in Uni's etc.

    Love

    Wobble

    p.s If only I had been taught well enough the art of critical thinking,and how to act on it, I would not have spent so long in the Dub. Cult!

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere
    It was proved during trial that the two leaders on the school board lied about their motives -- they didn't care about the scientific method, they just wanted religion back in the schools.

    I think you meant to say: "they just wanted THEIR religion back in the schools".

    They don't care about any other religion or "intelligent designer", only THEIR "intelligent designer".

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