So, there I am. I’m at school going to the campus cafe for my usual cup of hot water (for my tea). Just outside the doors is the “free speech” zone where different groups can come and set up informational booths. Who should be there? Yep, a table w/ JW’s hawking their BS. There were a couple of black women (sounded like they were from somewhere in the Caribbean – just think “madam cleo”) waiting for unsuspecting college students to happen by. I went past and got my cup of water and steeped my tea. (Darjeeling this morning). I went back out and pretended to be absorbed in texting someone, but in reality I was taking a photo that I will post tomorrow when I am home.
Anyhow, my anger at them won out and I just had to go speak to them. I’m certain they thought I was just another student or faculty memeber – but I walked up to them and said “Wow! You’re about the last people I ever thought I’d see on a college campus.”
They asked why. I said “Well, when I was growing up as a JW, going to college was discouraged in the harshest of terms.” They said “So, but you went to college?”
Me: “Nope. I’m almost 40 years old and just now taking the opportunity to go. Too bad I didn’t do it when I was younger.”
Them: “Er....Uh....” etc.
Them: “So are you a witness?”
Me: “No way. I’m not a big fan of the WTS.”
Them: “Oh, really? Why?”
Me: “Well, for starters, I don’t like that they have covered up pedophelia as a policy.”
Them: “Well, Jehovah doesn’t let things stay covered up.”
Me: “Well, tell that to my daughter.”
Them: “The imperfect make mistakes. Even in the bible, his servants didn’t always do the right thing.”
Me: “Yes, but they didn’t claim to millions of people to be God’s spirit directed orgization.”
Them: “But it’s individuals. There are always individuals that mess up.”
Me: “Well, that’s funny, because the elders that violated the law by not reporting allegations of the abuse of my daughter and who knew before I did, they’re still elders. I called the society, so they had knowledge – yet they did nothing either.”
They: “We’re so sorry. How old was your daughter?”
Me: “Seven. She’ll never be the same.”
Them: “hmmm.”
Me: “So, how do you everyday witnesses feel about your donations to the worldwide work going to pay off lawsuits because of the coverup of pedophelia?”
Them: “We don’t know anything about that.”
Me: “Don’t you think you should? After all, that doesn’t sound like God’s organization for them to be doing that and hushing it up.”
Them: “Well, it’s like when we pay taxes to the government. We don’t know what it will be spent on, but we still pay it.”
Me: “Yes, but the government doesn’t make the claim that they are God’s orgaization on earth.”
Them: “well, they are directed by god.”
Me: “HA! God’s pretty inefficient then.”
Them: “It’s up to each to work out his salvation. It shouldn’t be up to an organization.”
Me: “Then why when you baptize someone do you requrie that they affirm loyalty to this earthly organization?”
Them: “We don’t.”
Me: “What about the second question at every assembly when there is a baptismal ceremony?”
Them: “Er...uh....I don’t remember that being in there.”
Me: “It is. Listen for it next time. How about the hypocrisy of the WTS preaching that the UN is part of Satan’s earthly organization yet they have affilliated themselves with it – again without ever letting everyday witnesses know about it. “
Them: “We don’t know anything about that.”
Me: “Well, good luck then, today. Sounds to me like maybe you should spend less time sitting here passing out literature and more time educating yourselves about the group you look to as God’s means of communicating his will to mankind.”
I then walked away with a smile on my face. MAN,did that feel great! Who knew college was going to expand my horizons in such ways?
New JW Campus Outreach
by CoonDawg 9 Replies latest jw friends
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CoonDawg
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Kudra
wow- if you said all that stuff verbatim then CONGRATS, very well spoken and just enough info to make them think. You didn't sound like what they would stereotype an "apostate" to be.
Wonder if you'll see em again.
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watson
Coondawg,
I think you should make a "back call," er, I mean "return visit," and bring them a scan of the UN letter, possibly a news release for the court settlements, and just leave them with them. They will probably be around for a while, with plenty of time to read.
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WTWizard
They just "forget" things that are detrimental to themselves and their organization. You can make an argument against something with those witlesses, and two minutes later they are bringing the exact same point up again. They will not accept the fact that they couldn't defend the argument the first time around, and so they cannot defend it the second (or third) time.
Which is one reason why it's so difficult to get them out of the cult. (It is also why it's almost impossible to make a Christian Paulian see that Original Sin is either a complete hoax or God's creating a problem where none existed in order to indebt us for the "solution(??)".)
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cameo-d
Original Sin is either a complete hoax or God's creating a problem where none existed in order to indebt us for the "solution(??)".)
Wizard, are you saying this whole Original Sin scenerio could be predicated on the Helegian Dialectic?
hmmmm.....interesting thought.
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BluesBrother
Brilliant ! CoonDawg..
The poor "sisters" had no chance against and informed and outspoken "ex witness"..I bet they really "Didn't know anything about that" . The WT programmes its members to only believe what it tells them, and they tell them nothing about these issues.
For example. my wife is aware of the child abuse scandal because she was willing to watch 'Panorama' T V in the UK that time, but she puts it down to rogue elders who are the exception to the rest. She would not accept any internet based information, so does not accept the scale of the problem. She is more open minded than most of them, most put it all down to "apostate lies"which they turn away from .BTW , I hope your daughter is ok now..
When dubs go out in the ministry they (as we used to) work on the principle that they know more than the public know about their own subject, so when someone who is knowledgeable comes up against them, they flounder....Sad thing is that it very rarely makes them think...
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jeeprube
Nicely done Coondog! Both in your conversation and in being back in college! I've also decided to get my degree. I've been plugging away part time since 2005 and have finally reached the point that I can devote myself full time to it.
Like many here, I feel as if my childhood were stolen from me. Now that we have wised up and are back in school, how frustrating is it to see JW's there as well hawking their message. If anything a college campus should be a JW free zone, yet they even have the audacity to try and ruin that for us.
One more point, my beautiful wife will graduate this spring with honors! I am so very proud of her! She was one of the most hardcore JW's I ever knew. She pioneered throughout high school, went to pioneer school, and financed her way to the Dominican Republic right after graduation to witness for a summer. It took years for her to see the light. She finally read CoC, and never looked back. She went right to college, applied for one of the most difficult and highly selective programs on campus, and kicked the $hit out of it. This spring she will walk down the aisle with colors around her neck, and her head held high!
Any of us can do this. JW's have stolen much from us, but they do not have to take the rest of our lives.....we can chart our own paths!
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jamiebowers
Perhaps some excerpts from Barbara Anderson's collection of court documents that prove Merton Campbell moved pedophiles from congregation to congregation and was also featured in the WT magazine last year as a faithful servant of God. Rogue elders my ass!
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Lady Lee
wow wow you did fabulous
Now wouldn't it be interesting to see someone put up a table discussing the danger of cults and how to recognize them - just in a general sort of way - no naming cults of course
Then again a checklist of the things cults do and how various groups match the criteria would be interesting to hand out
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CoonDawg
Thank you all for your positive comments. It was, indeed, a cathartic experience. I will be doing some papers this semester with cult related themes. In my education for diverse populations class, I am doing a lesson plan on religious diversity in the classroom - and I plan to give future teachers a wakeup about the realities of having JW's in a classroom setting.
Jeep...That's cool that you are working on your degree too. My wife is still technically "in" but she goes very rarely and those are usually assemblies w/ my mom...she even really disagrees w/ the WTS on a number of things, but apparently her catholic roots require her to do a pennance of sorts. Anyhow, she went back a couple of years ago and got her Masters in Healthcare Administration. She too graduated with honors. I am really enjoying school and am currently working on campus part time as a research assistant for one of my professors from last semester. I was really honored to be asked because the project I'm working on - well, this would usually be a grad student type of position. My research has the potential to change the course structure at my college. Plus, it really fits well with my education major. Lots of this stuff is about best practices in education, particularly in developmental education at the college level. Interesting stuff - to me anyhow.
Those witnesses can suck it! I'm having the time of my life!
Oh, and LadyLee...The thought has crossed my mind. Maybe if I have a bit more time next semester, they just may have another table there to "counter" them.