Urgently need to contact Leolaia for source

by Eyes Open 4 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Eyes Open
    Eyes Open

    Does anyone have Leolaia's contact details - email or anything? I urgently need to identify the source of something she's brought to our attention in the past, which is the info on itinerants of 2 John, below.

    Thanks.


    2 John is specifically referring to the Antichrist and should not be applied across the board to all forms of sin, as defined, subject to change from time to time, by the Watchtower Society. Importantly, John’s advice here was not limited to former Christians. It included ‘anyone’ denying Christ. This included Jews that rejected Jesus and people of the nations worshipping other Gods. Yet the Watchtower stance is to apply this only to Jehovah's Witnesses. 2 John 9-11 should be understood within the social setting of early Christianity. The scripture is not about people who have been expelled from the Christian congregation. When read in context, it is about anyone who "does not bring this teaching" [of the Christ]. It presumes the practice of itinerant radicalism, in which charismatic teachers and healers wandered from town to town, from church to church, where they received lodging in exchange for their services. They lived in poverty without any possessions or money of their own. This is the kind of homeless vagabond lifestyle promoted or referred to in Matthew 6:25-34, 8:19-22, 10:5-42, 23:34 etc. as a particularly higher calling to discipleship. Itinerants were not members of a given church. They would stay a while for fellowship before moving on. There however was room for much conflict. Itinerant preachers did not share the same theological and eschatological perspective, and sometimes members in a given church would follow different teachers. Itinerant preachers and healers thus had a significant degree of prestige and authority in the Christian community (cf. the "Seventy" that were sent out as apostles in Luke 10; the church historian Eusebius claimed that these included Barnabas, Cephas, Thaddeus, Matthias, and Joseph Barsabbas Justus). They also may view themselves as followers of a particular teacher or prophet. That was what happened in Corinth, with some members of the church following Paul and others preferring to follow Apollos (1 Corinthians 1-3), as well as what happened in the churches of Galatia when Paul began to lose his influence there to Torah-observant Jewish Christians (1 Cor. 1:6-9, 4:17, 5:7-12, 6:12). Paul lived just such an itinerant lifestyle for much of his ministry. Early Christian society was split between resident communities where Christians owned property and were subject to the rules of the community (cf. Matthew 18), whereas the wandering itinerants were dependent on these host communities for their hospitality. The wandering poor were also sometimes discriminated against within the resident churches on account of their abject poverty. This was the perspective of the author of James. He mentions that some individuals were "chosen" i.e a minority within Christian society - to be "poor in the eyes of the world" and "rich in faith" (James 2:5), poverty as a calling. But in some places, they were discriminated on account of their clothing and personal appearance while wealthy resident Christians were treated with higher respect (James 2:1 - 4). Paul’s focus on faith over works also devalued the importance of the itinerant lifestyle which aimed to achieve righteousness through "works", i.e. by living righteously through poverty. James 2:14 - 26 however defended the value of works and encouraged resident Christians to perform their own good "works" by receiving itinerants with hospitality, using the example of Rahab who "received the messengers and then sent them out another way" (James 2:25). He thus condemned those who would send the itinerants away without caring for their needs: "If a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food and one of you says to him, 'Go on, I wish you well, keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?" (James 2:15 - 17) James goes on to guard against commercial itinerism (James 4:13 - 15), wandering from town to town in order to make money. Important here is the code of hospitality, such that even if itinerants have no real authority they have the right to be treated hospitably unless the visitor violates the stated guidelines, such as by asking for money (compare Matthew 10:9), staying too long, eating while in the spirit, etc., any of which proves that the visitor is a "false prophet" and to be shunned. Interestingly, these aspects of personal conduct seem to matter more than doctrine. The conflict between itinerant missionaries and resident Christians also plays out in 2 and 3 John, where the practice of shunning is mentioned in both letters as a response to itinerant visitors. In the first letter, Presbyter John (a leader from the early sub-apostolic period with significant personal prestige, as Papias and Polycarp relate) instructs the churches under his influence to refuse hospitality to itinerant teachers who teach what he regards to be false doctrine. It is important to recognize that these "deceivers" were not resident members of the church but outsiders who would be "coming to you" (erkhetai pros humas) from abroad who seek to be "received into your house" (lambanete eis oikian), i.e. itinerants like those in Matthew 10:12 who seek to be received "into homes" (eis tén oikian) and receive support. This has nothing to do with shunning members of the church itself; it has to do with taking in outsiders who are already known to be teachers of different doctrines, for this would require the church to give lodging, food, and support to the person -- thereby "sharing in his wicked work". In other words, the author here regards "deceivers" as illegitimate itinerants not worthy of the normal hopsitality that wandering teachers and missionaries would receive.
  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Hi, I just noticed that you sent a PM. The new PM system unfortunately does not indicate the receipt of new messages.

    Also, this new board lacks a working search utility, so I cannot find old posts as easily as I could in the past. I found a post via Google that may have been the one you used, but I am not sure:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/142548/1/Can-i-have-some-help-re-shunning-scriptures-please

    There is probably a large literature on itinerancy in early Christianity --what I posted was only a summary of statements in primary sources (e.g. the synoptic gospels, the Didache, James, 2-3 John, the Gospel of Thomas, etc.). It is clear from the context of 2-3 John that the subject being discussed was supporting itinerant outsiders (travelling from place to place) by giving them lodging and food (as expected by rules of hospitality), and thereby becoming a sharer in their deeds. The closest thing in the JW world would be giving support to circuit overseers travelling between congregations, but of course the latter derive their authority from a particular organizational structure characteristic to the JWs whereas first-century itinerants came from an altogether different social setting. The passage in 2 John has nothing to do with relations within congregations, or the treatment of disciplined persons by their fellows.

  • Eyes Open
    Eyes Open

    Many thanks Leolaia.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I was going to highlight the closest (and ironically symmetrical, inasmuch as the Elder's own official envoys are rejected by another church) parallel in 3 John, but Leolaia did it excellently in that other thread:

    "I have written something to the church but Diotrephes, who seems to enjoy being in charge of it, refuses to accept us. So when I come, I will bring up what he is doing, making unjustified charges against us with a malicious tongue. And not content with that, he himself refuses to receive the brothers (oute epidekhetai tous adelphous); he also tries to hinder (kóluei) those who want to welcome them, and he expels (ekballei) them from the church" (3 John 9-10).
    Here John aligns himself with the rejected visitors by using the first person plural pronoun and in fact he had instructed them to deliver an epistle on his behalf. But the leader of the church refuses them. He treats them exactly the same way John wants to treat those he regards as heretics. It is not clear why Diotrephes refused the itinerant teachers representing John, but the reference to the "malicious charges" (logois ponérois) that Diotrephes brought against them raises the possibility that he regarded them -- and John in turn -- as "false teachers". So this practice of refusing itinerants was a double-edged sword. John also hints here that despite Diotrephes' authority inside the church, he would be able to settle the conflict if he goes there in person -- indicating that he retained much personal authority in the church. Some scholars believe that the conflict here had to do with authority, with John representing the older system of presbyters and Diotrephes being a relatively young bishop who did not recognize John's authority.

    I would add only two side comments:

    1. Perhaps this is not so much a matter of an "old" authority system vs. a "new" one as in a linear development, than the conflict of two contemporary systems: the Johannine community retains a comparatively low level of "human" authority which suits its theology (cf. "you don't need anyone to teach you" in 1 John) while the "great Church" already tends to build a monarchical system (cf. the role of the one episkopos or "bishop" in the Pastorals which seems to fit Diotrephes perfectly).

    2. The small "part of truth" I can see in the Watchtower interpretation of 2 John (unpleasant as it may be) is that, although this is a collective rejection of "false teachers" as an official decision by the congregation (and, in the perspective of the Pastorals, ultimately one man's decision), it is supposed to be supported by all its members (under the penalty of excommunication in Diotrephes' church). So the prohibition of "even a greeting" (khairein) in 2 John may well be understood as individual in this context.

    Of course we must not lose sight of the forest for the tree: this doesn't apply to any kind of "sin" (but the prohibition of "even eating with such a man" in 1 Corinthians is closer to that), this is not a closed-door-committee decision (but it may be one's man decision, which may sound worse), and above all this is still a local, not global, decision (as ironically shown by the reciprocity of the situations of 2 and 3 John: the shunner is being shunned, or the shunned "Elder" becomes a shunner, depending on the chronological order of the Epistles).

  • SixofNine

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