How accurate is the WTBS figures regarding publishers, studies, etc..?
by Quirky1 8 Replies latest jw friends
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Quirky1
Any takers?
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blondie
As accurate as their prophetic predictions.............................?
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sir82
I'm pretty sure that the WTBS accurately publishes the numbers that are sent to them.
But as anecdotal evidence on this forum suggests, there are lots (LOTS) of people who fake their reports. Others are very "creative" in counting their time (drive 45 minutes from one end of territory to the other, one not-at-home return visit at each end, and the van of 6 people all count all that time).
There is no (NOT AT ALL) auditing of the reports that individual publishers hand in to the secretary.
In my time as secretary, I lost count of the times that I thought a report was missing, and I had to call the person for their time. They'd say they had, for example, 8 hours, 10 magazines, and 3 RVs. A month later the report would turn up, and written on it were 5 hours, 3 magazines and 1 RV. I.e., people just make $#!+ up.
Not to mention that many secretaries make up time for certain publishers ("I know he must have gone it in service last month...I'll put him down for 2 hours") so that the count of "regular" publishers stays high.
Conclusion: The WTBS accurately transcribes the numbers as sent in by congregation secretaries...but the numbers the secretaries send in are very often wildly exaggerated.
By the way, I'm pretty sure the WTBS knows this, but they don't seem to care.
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Lady Lee
Blondie
Personally Iwouldn't trust any numbers they publish. Over the decades they have shown an unbelievable ability to change numbers on just about everything. I think it was the numbers of JWs who had died under Hitler's regime. See a post made by MacHislopp How many JW's died as Nazi's victims,
*** w51 2/15 105-6 An Open Answer to "The Vindicator" ***
That is why during the Nazi regime in Germany from 1933 to 1945 Jehovah’s witnesses in that land refused to heil Hitler! as their Fuehrer or Leader, and went to concentration camps and prisons, where 2,000 died cruel deaths, and of the 8,000 that came out alive, 2,000 were invalided for the rest of their lives.
*** w54 12/1 724-5 The Fight for Freedom to Preach World-wide ***
17 It is a familiar story about the fight for freedom fought by Jehovah’s witnesses to preach in Nazi- and Fascist-dominated lands from 1933 to 1945. Thousands were thrown into the concentration camps. Many were tortured and killed. Countless numbers died because of their loyalty to Jehovah God.
*** w55 8/1 462-3 Part 15: Foreign Activities Under Fascist-Nazi Persecution ***
Thus a mad national effort was embarked upon, to eliminate Jehovah’s witnesses from the German national scene. In the course of the dark years that followed thousands of witnesses were arrested, falsely convicted and put in prisons and concentration camps where many of them suffered unspeakably. Some two thousand witnesses lost their lives in this struggle to keep faithful integrity to Jehovah.
*** yb74 212 Germany (Part Three) ***
A total of 2,000 brothers and sisters had been put into concentration camps, where they had spent 8,078 years and six months, an average of four years. A total of 635 had died in prison, 253 had been sentenced to death and 203 of these had actually been executed.
*** g74 1/22 32 Would You Remain Loyal? ***
In Nazi Germany Jehovah’s witnesses refused to compromise. They remained loyal to righteous principles. They had no share in Hitler’s political or military aggressions. Just a few decades ago, hundreds died in his concentration camps. But thousands came out strong in faith.
*** w79 11/1 7 Neutrality in a Mixed-up World ***
NEUTRALITY A PROTECTION
Many Christian witnesses of Jehovah in Nazi Germany and elsewhere lost their lives in maintaining neutrality.
*** w84 10/1 8 Impressed by the Integrity of Jehovah's Witnesses ***
The title of Dr. King’s book is The Nazi State and the New Religions: Five Case Studies in Non-Conformity.
Most outstanding among Dr. King’s findings are the figures of deaths and imprisonment of Jehovah’s Witnesses. These indicate that the figures previously published by the Witnesses were greatly underestimated. Dr. King’s source for these statistics was a volume published in Munich, Germany, by Michael Kater. “My own perusal of Court and Gestapo records,” she declared, “would certainly support these higher figures.”
What are these figures? “Some 10,000 were imprisoned, and together they received sentences totalling 20,000 years. One out of every two German Witnesses was imprisoned, one in four lost their lives.
*** g84 12/8 13 Nazi-Fascist Attacks on Witnesses ***
See The Nazi State and the New Religions: Five Case Studies in Non-Conformity, by Dr. Christine E. King.
Of the 10,000, about 2,500 never did go free, according to the above source—they died in Dachau, Belsen, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, Ravensbrück, Auschwitz, Mauthausen and other camps—faithful to their God, Jehovah, and their exemplar, Christ.
*** w86 1/1 10 Days Like "the Days of Noah" ***
And as to persecution, Jesus forewarned his disciples, saying: “They will put some of you to death.”
Hundreds of our brothers died at the violent hands of Nazi Hitler. Jehovah will remember all of such in the resurrection.
*** re 40 8 Striving to Be Conquerors ***(PUB. IN 1988)
9 During Nazi rule in Germany, Hitler completely banned the preaching work of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
For years, thousands of Witnesses were cruelly confined in concentration camps, where many died, while hundreds of young men who refused to fight in Hitler’s army were executed.
*** re 185 27 God's Kingdom Is Born! ***(PUB. IN 1988)
28 This vicious flood of persecution reached a high point during World War II. In Europe some ten thousand Witnesses were incarcerated in Nazi concentration camps, and thousands died.
*** w90 2/1 22 Exposing "the Man of Lawlessness" ***
A review of the book Kirchenkampf in Deutschland (Fight of the Churches in Germany), by Friedrich Zipfel, says regarding the Witnesses: “Ninety-seven percent of the members of this small religious group were victims of National Socialistic [Nazi] persecution.
One third of them were killed, either by execution, other violent acts, hunger, sickness or slave labor.*** g93 5/8 4 Victims or Martyrs What Is the Difference? ***
During the Nazi period in Germany (1933-45), Jehovah’s Witnesses suffered terrible persecution for daring to remain neutral and for refusing to serve in Hitler’s war effort.
Thousands were sent to the dreaded concentration camps, where many were executed and others died from mistreatment.
*** g97 8/22 26 Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia ***
Because Jehovah’s Witnesses refused to cry out ‘Heil Hitler’ and serve in Hitler’s army, many thousands of believers were sent to Nazi concentration camps, and thousands died.
***W 15.1.2001 p. 10 "… 2000 died …"
Sorta makes you wonder what they do with other figures. For an organization that loves to use numbers to count every last thing it is odd that they have such a problem being consistent when it comes to recounting them. This is just one example - there are many more
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WTWizard
I believe they fake the numbers at every level they can. Publishers turn in fake time. Hounders turn in fake time for the publishers that do not report. And they inflate the numbers at headquarters.
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metatron
If you really think that Witnesses are honest, ask yourself if they are as scrupulous about their field service report numbers as they would be about filling out a time card for work. Falsifying that could get you fired.
metatron
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shamus100
They are not honest at all. They drive from one end of the territory to the other, counting they're 'time'. They're not preaching....
Also, they change the rules all the time what constitutes an 'active' publisher as opposed to 'inactive'.
The numbers are fudged.
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orangefatcat
that is so true, many witnesses don't report hours honestly. I use to accompany this elders wife in the service I would tell her I will be pick you up a 9 AM, I get to her house she is never ready not ever, she is just get dressed and fussing and then she goes over to the telephone and makes a call and then talks about 10 min. I meanwhile am furious as I want to start my service time also. After her call she says we can now start our time. I said our time, and she yes, that was a return visit. I thought to myself how can she justify that as the beginning of her time, and I couldn't start me time as I didn't speak to her. Finally after waiting nearly another hour for her to get out her front door and me trying hard not to be annoyed We start to go on her return visits she has me go back and forth from one end of the town to the end and back and forth. I want to end my time by one she keeps me out to 5 pm or 6 pm . I take her home she looks at her clock and declares the number of hours we got in the service for the day. Of course she started her time from the phone call she made at 9 am but I couldn't say i started mine at nine, I started mine when we spoke with the first person and ended with the last person not when we returned to her home. I did this for months until I just couldn' t take it any more and just stopped going out with her. I would use any excuse so as not to go out with her. I would be so exhausted I kept missing meetings as I was so mind tired I needed to stop and rest and often fell into deep sleeps . So I missed meetings I think that she was n't honest with her time. I am not saying I didn't round off my time if I was 10 min. shy of my time. But I often witnessed to people and didn' t bother counting the 10 or 15 min. so it made up for the rounding off. that is how i did my service time and I feel I was honest in reporting my time orangefatcat