Jehovah's Witnesses Crime Map (page 2)

cofty

I just had a browse and came across a marker on your map for a fraud case involving Samuel and Joan Tree.

In the text and the linked article there is no mention of them having any connection to the cult.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713410/Couple-sold-worthless-homemade-bomb-detectors-1-170-claiming-used-hunt-Madeleine-McCann.html

I'm surprised that so many of you seem to automatically take a negative view of everything the people of AAWA do to try to expose the Watchtower's propaganda and support for criminal behavior. A JW can be disfellowshipped far more quickly for expressing doubts or questions about "new light" or "607 BC" than they can by actually committing a criminal act. I think that most Jehovah's Witnesses are really convinced that all members who regularly attend Kingdom Hall or go in the preaching work are "good people," especially elders. My opinion and observation is that it is more often the elders and MS brothers that are charged and convicted with crimes than your average JWs.

I immediately got the point of the AAWA crime map. The Watchtower tries to paint a picture that the organization is a "safe place."

Several years ago when I was on a business trip to California, I saw a TV news account about an elder in Riverside, California who was convicted of murdering his wife in order to collect the life insurance that he had taken out for her. I could not remember his name but I remembered the story because I was quite frankly shocked at the severity of the crime. I remember watching on TV as reporters tried to get other JWs to make a statement. Those that did seemed mostly supportive of the convicted elder, while others refused to speak on camera. Since then I had forgotten the name of the elder and exactly where the crime took place.

It only took me a second to locate the exact case and JW criminal on the map with enough information that I knew it was the very case I remembered from my trip. Kelle Jarka, elder of the Riverside Murrietta Kingdom Hall.

Below the map you will find this statement:

"The map, as you will see, clearly shows that these crimes are at the very least as common within the Witness community as they are within the rest of society, and not what Watchtower wants Witnesses or anyone else to think. In fact, many of Watchtower’s policies provide a safe harbor for the criminals, particularly for child molesters."

For me the purpose and the effectiveness of the map is immediately apparent. Even though I am new to this discussion site and am aware that many of you dislike AAWA and many of its members, I am suprised that you feel that you must always take a stand against everything they do - even when they do something very positive and educational. In this particular project they are making and proving their point that Jehovah's Witnesses are not all "happy and loving people," that Kingdom Halls are not necessarily "safe places," or that all elders and ministerial servants get their appointments because they have been approved by Jehovah's spirit leading the other elders or higher overseers. If "Jehovah's spirit" is in charge of choosing elders and protecting the JW flock, then Jehovah and his spirit and the Watchtower organization are all performing at a woefully poor level.

The Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses should apologize for their lack of insight and their almost automatic protection of criminals within their Kingdom Halls. AAWA, at least in the case of their crime map, owe apologies to no one.

NGD

NoGoodDeed

Talesin wrote:

NIc, really? I guess you didn't read her last words here, which were very destructive in their intent.. "Negative" is the way to describe it. Uggh ........

Be that as it may, I am happy to add my BILs name to the list.

Nathan Nahas posted:

Lee Marsh posted here as "Lady Lee." Here is a link to her farewell mssg to this board:

I read Lady Lee's post and I did not find anything that I would recognize as being "very destructive in their intent" or "Negative is the best way to describe it..." Maybe I missed something along the way, but while Lady Lee made the point that her relationship with AAWA made it difficult for her to continue to be a volunteer "editor" or "supervisor" (not sure what her exact position was here), I did not see anything else that she wrote that was nearly as negative as described by Talesin.

Not terribly important, but as I mentioned in my prior posting, many of you here would likely criticize other groups like AAWA even if they came up with a cure for cancer. Do you ever look beyond a person's or group's mistakes and try to recognize when they do something positive or are trying to make a difference?

NGD

wokeup

I was looking over the map and noticed they forgot to included Christian Longo who murdered his wife Mary Jane and their 3 children in Oregon, dumping the bodies in water with concrete blocks if my memory serves me correctly.

talesin

Nic, really? I'm not.

The thing is that the 'rest of the world' does not claim to be the Lord's Chosen Ones.

Remember, the 'worst JW is better than the Best Worldly Person'.

So, yes, they deserve to be judged harshly. (in my opinion)

tal :sunglasses:

Simon

So they still act like anti / activists even though they claim to be a support group ...

Things like this are not constructive IMO. Is it intended to be an attempt to suggest that "JWs are evil" or something to that effect? Really, what is the intention? Who is the audience meant to be? Is this meant to help any current JWs or just pander to a mob of cheerleaders? All it really does is highlight that as a group they have a very low rate of crime (as, like it or not, many other similar groups do).

Guess what. If you have +8 million members then *some* of them are going to do things wrong and you are going to have many shades of member from devout to peripheral associates all of whom are capable of messing up. What matters most is what happens when they do.

So picking individual crimes is rather meaningless. What matters more is the rate of crime compared to other populations and what matters most is what the organizations policies and handling of crimes that are relevant to or a factor of the group are.

If we map all crimes by Americans ... or blacks ... or immigrants ... or women ... or [insert whatever politically incorrect / grouping here] then you get a similar nonsense picture that may appeal to fanatics with a clear bias but few who prefer reasonable consideration of reality. Daily Mail readers would love this - that's not a compliment.

The map is clearly biased and not objective as it includes many things that are not crimes, just unproven / over-hyped complaints.

I wonder if someone is going to map crimes committed by ex-JWs ... let's hope not!

talesin

Nic, really? I'm not.

The thing is that the 'rest of the world' does not claim to be the Lord's Chosen Ones.

Remember, the 'worst JW is better than the Best Worldly Person'.

So, yes, they deserve to be judged harshly. (in my opinion)

never a jw

talesin,

Actually, just about any other religious group claims in an implicit, subtle or deliberate way that its members are the chosen ones.

nicolaou

Cofty, Sam Tree was in a neighbouring congregation to mine (Goldenash, Weston Favell). Whilst I'm not sold on what AAWA are doing I can confirm that report is accurate. I remember him and his story.

Jehovah's Witnesses Crime Map

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