by moomanchu 5 Replies latest watchtower bible
JW's believe in two resurections the heavenly (spiritual) and earthly (physical).
Jesus died and was resurrected as a spirit.
Therefore the 144,000 can look back on this event and have faith that
the resurrection will happen.
The earthly resurrection never has happened as taught by JW's
How can the great crowd have faith in the resurrection
as the 144,000 do?
The stone at Jesus tomb was rolled away to let the witnesses in
not to let Jesus out.
Pun intended.
Well, they could point to the people that Jesus and the Apostles was said to have resurrected. i.e. Lazarus.
Hi moomanchu.
Who believes in the resurrection depends on which anointed you are talking to.
But just to be blunt though I realize you can't believe what I say, possibly, even though it's in the Bible, you should know these facts:
1. The 144,000 are just Jews; 12,000 from each tribe. They make up 1/10th of the entire number, which is 1,440,000. This is based on Isa 6:13. So when I refer to the 144K I will just say "Bride Class". But so you know, it's really 1,440,000 total who become of the heavenly class.
2. When Christ resurrects those for the first resurrection it's back into the flesh! And this has to occur before the second coming! So if the second coming occurred in either 1914 (607BCE), 1934 (587 BCE) or 1992 (529 BCE), then the resurrection of those part of the 1st resurrection should have occurred already. These are resurrected back into the FLESH because they rule with Christ for 1000 years on the earth! Now doesn't that make sense? Does it make more sense that they go right up to heaven, all 144K+ to try and rule the earth for 1000 years? I mean, how are they going to do that? Appear in visions for their designated "other sheep" PO's to communicate with them? No way. They are right here on the earth to have hands-on management of the affairs of the earth during the millennium.
Thus if the Bible is true and Christ would have already arrived based upon the available dates for the fall of Jerusalem, then WHERE ARE THEY? 1 Corinthians 15 tells us. Basically it says the first resurrection is first sown into a physical body then raised in a spiritual one. They are sown into corruption and raised in incorruption. They are sown in weakness and raised up in strength. Meaning? Meaning that the bodies they are sown into first are everybody physical bodies of other humans (see, I told you wouldn't believe me). But that makes the resurrection invisible.
But don't PANIC! Just one "seed" of a resurrected person to share one body:
1 Cor 15: 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body.
Now basically, there are two groups of anointed. Those who are part of the eagle-woman's organization, made up of many secret socities who know Christ in person after his arrival. And then there are the "remaining ones of her seed" who are public anointed, whom Satan can see. Satan cannot see the organizations that exist in secret. These two groups are those who are in the banquet of the prodigal son and of the older brother who is left out. Two groups, but both approved. The insider group, the ones who experience the messiah directly have more information and can accept more of the reality of what the Bible says. Thus they already know about the resurrection of the ancient ones into the bodies of modern ones. For instance, I know Peter and Daniel. Or I should say, they know me. That is, I know their modern identities. It just happened that way by coincidence, I suppose -- or maybe not. But anyway, we have no problem believing in the resurrection because it has already occurred.
By the way, think about how this works out as far as orientation. Imagine someone coming out of the graveyard speaking a foreign language and needing a social security number and to be taken care of? It would take lots of time, maybe years for two people to get that person updated and oriented to the modern world, including learning a new language and studying all the history that took place. What a waste of time! But if they are resurrected within the modern person themselves, then they instantly know everything and speak a modern tongue, PLUS they are invisible! How NEAT!!!
But that reflects on Christ too. The first time he had to be perfect so had to be born as an infant. But the second time he doesn't and he just gets "downloaded" like the resurrected ones, into one of the modern anointed ones!!
So everything has been fulfilled and the 1st resurrection has occurred, just as the Bible says.
Now remember 1 Thess 4:15 where some of the Christians were concerned over whether those alive when Christ arrived would get their heavenly prize ahead of those who had to be resurrected? But they ALL get their heavenly prize together. But that's because they are ALL in the flesh again, with Christ for the entire millennium and then Judgment Day after that!!! So they don't actually go to heaven until after Judgment Day is over, which is after the millennium and after Satan is killed in the lake of fire.
So the WTS' concept of some of the anointed going straight to heaven now when they die, when the Bible clearly says ALL of them are changed at the same time in the "twinkling of an eye" TOGETHER is just unbilical. They still haven't figured out how some of the anointed who might survive Armageddon will end up dying and going to heaven to allegedly join the others already up in heaven. But that's because they don't understand what's really hapening. They are in spiritual darkness. The ONLY way all the anointed can become angels at exactly the same time is that ALL of them are in the flesh at the same time just before that happens. And that is clearly only when Death, man's last enemy is destroyed. 1 Corin 15:54
54 But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.”
And when is death swallowed up forever? Not until the last sinner is cast into the lake of fire and everybody else has eternal life. Then death is cast into the lake of fire. But that is after Judgment Day, after the millennium! So NOBODY is up in heaven from the earth yet. Christ was the first to go to heaven who had come from the earth, but now even he's back here on the earth in another human body.
So, trust me, the WTS is CLULESS as far as the accurate truth is concerned, regarding the resurrection and dozens of other things. And you can tell they are just stumbling in the dark. But the actual REALITY is hard to accept unless you're of the anointed, so I can understand if you can't accept it. But that's the way it goes. The day of Jehovah is one of "thick gloom" and darkness. Even some of the anointed remain in darkness until the millennium begins and then everybody will be updated and revealed.
But it's actually VERY WONDERFUL. If you knew who the modern Daniel and Peter are, you'd be most pleased. They are both such nice people. Very spiritual brothers. And both still active in the truth, too! Undercover, obviously. I'm OUT, where I belong, so...whatever.
Hope this helped. It's not hard for some of us to believe in the resurrection at all...
JC
Well, they could point to the people that Jesus and the Apostles was said to have resurrected. i.e. Lazarus
Those aren't the type of resurrection that is hoped for by JW's in the new system.
Those were imperfect and sinful ressurected people who eventually died.
All I'm saying is the 144k have Jesus to look to for faith that they to will have their resurrection .
Who does the great crowd have ?
JCanon,
You leave me speechless. Each to his own, I always say.
What the JWs teach is a re-creation, not a resurrection, of a person.
Why should anyone look forward to some re-creation of oneself in the future?
Can one really expect to experience what that future being will experience?
What the JWs teach is a re-creation, not a resurrection, of a person.
What's the difference? As long as the recreation is exact.
Why should anyone look forward to some re-creation of oneself in the future?
To live again.
Can one really expect to experience what that future being will experience?
Don't understand what you mean. All I am trying to say in this thread is the 144k type resurrection actually happpened, Jesus. The Great Crowd resurrection never happened. ( yet?) Two types of faith are required.
