Paradise Earth

pattio

I have read Crisis of Conscience and In Search for Christain Freedom by Ray Franz. I studied back in 74 with the JWs but never could commit. My daughter married a JW and is now baptizd. I am trying to find a way to reach them without them thinking of me as an Apostate. So I'm trying to get as educated as I can, to scriptures, that will make them think. One thing I really did like during my study was the fact that there would be a Paradise on Earth. I love this earth, the birds, the rain, clouds, sun, trees, oceans, streams, flowers ect... Aftrer reading Ray Franzs books my understanding is that Paradise is spiritual. Can anyone explain that better, I have to have a good understanding before I can put some questions to them about it.

zeroday

AS difficult as it is to understand cults offer something we so desperately want...sure we want to live on a paradise earth forever they say the words we want to hear the let down is when we come to realize their words are I don't know Not words but wishes...for your daughter and her husband they unfortunatelly have to discover for them selves it took me 28 years to discover for myself...any thing you could possible mention about their faith will be viewed as apostate material...no other way around it....I'm afraid...

pattio

Thanks for the reply. I just finished reading Rays books, I want to go back and select scriptures he used that may give them reason to think in a new way. I want to go slow and pick a few from the NT about accepting Jesus. I know they think the NT was written for the anointed so maybe I can start there with a scripture or two. Can you tell me when the bible speaks of Paradise is it referring to Heaven? I am just overwhelmed with this sight and so much material to read and its all an eye opener. When I hear of all the awful things families have been put through I just fear for my grand-kids being raised this way. Many thanks for all the support given here for so many!

MeneMene

Welcome to JWD pattio.

I was looking at some of the info on www.jwfacts.com today. It's an excellent site.

You might find some things you can use there.

pattio

Thank you for welcoming me Mene. I will check out the link. I am learning so much here just from reading different post. I thought about just handing my daughter and her husband the book Crisis of Conscience, I bought 2 one for each of them so they could read it at their own pace. It's very tedious reading and with 2 kids and their busy scheduels I don't think they would even read the book. I told my daughter last week before the memorial that I could never be a JW, I said its boring and never feels uplifting, its the same boring thing every week, read the watch tower, answer the questions from the watch tower, go out in service push push push, its never enough. Her answer was, I don't feel pushed, she said her and her 4 yrs old daughter went out in service Saturday and even the 4yr old passed out the invites to the memorial. Just so proud of her. My heart sank. She didn't get mad at me, she just thought I don't see it like she does. She trust me some because I don't interfere and as I said I did study when she was a baby and always told her I couldn't get baptized because I wasn't strong enough to do all they required and wouldn't be a hypocrite in the faith. Thank goodness for my weakness! Saved me from a lot of grief.

zeroday

I thought about just handing my daughter and her husband the book Crisis of Conscience,

A JW can be disfellowshipped for just reading that book don't think they will read it and will probably never talk to you again about their faith...

pattio

My son-in-laws mother and step dad are JWs. She is a pioneer and he is an elder, she is very extreme in the faith. My son-in-law broke away at 18 for about 5 yrs. During that time he enjoyed Christmas with us, his birthday and he is just not too extreme, he more or less keeps my daughter balanced. They got into the party life for a while and it was caused problems in the marriage. They decided they needed to have God more in their life to save the marriage. He said he could never go to another religon after being a JW since a little boy. My daughter was not practicing any religion. I was raised Catholic but was non practicing so I never raised my kids with a paticular religion. I just tried using Jesus as an example for us to follow. Talked with them about the bible.

I can tell you this, they don't hang with JWs they have outside friends, they both coach, kids are playing sports, they both like to go out and have a good time with friends, catch them swearing at times, getting a pretty good buzz from drinking. They celebrate their anniversay, take his grand-mother out to eat for her birthday. I get upset because they seem to have a double standard. They can pick what they enjoy, but don't let the kids celebrate birthday, santa clause, can't take valentines to school on valentines day, say the pledge. I just don't think that is fair nor can I feel they are absolutely 100% JWs. So sometimes I feel I can talk with them about these concerns.

My son-in-law is very intelligent and the type of person that will weigh things and not just accept them because some one says it's so. I think that's why he is a bit more relaxed in the religion.

Its hard for me to even find time to have any discusion with either one of them, with the kids around just can't have a serious conversation. Other times they are so busy with their jobs, his coaching, I'm just waiting for opportunities when I can maybe slip them a question that they can't answer and leave it there for them to ponder.

Here it is Sunday and I know they are headed for KH and my grand-kids have to sit there through the brain washing. They already have them giving answers to the questions and just look at them with such adoring eyes when they do this. Oh Lord Jesus, help them!!

Again, thank you all so very much for letting me vent and for the helpful advise. I'am really trying to go about this the right way and taking it slow praying for Jesus to give me patience and knowledge to go about it the right way. I still have a lot to learn.

God Bless All of You!

Honesty

Can you tell me when the bible speaks of Paradise is it referring to Heaven?

Paradise is mentioned 3 times in the New Testament:

And He said to him, “ I assure you : Today you will be with Me in paradise.” Luke 23:43

It is necessary to boast; it is not helpful, but I will move on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who was caught up into the third heaven 14 years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don’t know; God knows. I know that this man — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows — was caught up into paradise. 2 Corinthians 12:1-4

“Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. I will give the victorthe right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7

pattio

Thank you, Honesty. I'm not sure I'm grasping what you wrote. To me it still seems like it could be a paradise earth by their beliefs. Why am I finding those scriptures a bit deep? out of body and 3rd Heaven are something I'm unaware of. I will look those scriptures up and read them again. Thank you for taking time to read my post and for your help!

misspeaches

Hello pattio - I've just stumbled across your thread about paradise and thought i might be able to offer you a starting point.

I think it would be in your interest to look up the origin of the concept of paradise. As I understand it I think it has Persian or Iranian origins. The understanding of what it is now seems to have been changed depending on what your religous denomination teaches.

I really believe that if you take the time to look this up you may find some interesting information that you could present to your children.

Good luck!

Paradise Earth

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