Lies, Myths and fairy Tales....

by nomoreguilt 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • nomoreguilt

    In order to avoid Doctrine, Dogma and Interpretation I am going to quote this one scripture. I will leave it to the rest of my esteemed colleagues here to apply it to the appropriate TALE in the bible. I will start with Adam and Eve and the garden.

    ISAIAH 46: 9-10. "Remember the first things of a long time ago, that I am the Divine One and there is no other God, nor anyone like me; the One TELLING FROM THE BEGINNING THE FINALE, and from long ago the things that not been done".

    If then, this is the TRUTH, why even create man and woman,His knowing the outcome of the TEST???, and the eventuallity of mankind and the earth?

    I am not being sarcastic, just realistic from the recorded word.


  • snowbird

    Since context matters a lot (something the WTS completely ignores when it suits their purpose), here's the entire 46th chapter of Isaiah from The Message Bible.

    It's apparent YHWH was referring to the Nation of Israel when He stated that He knew from beginning to ending what would happen to them.

    1 -2 The god Bel falls down, god Nebo slumps. The no-god hunks of wood are loaded on mules And have to be hauled off,
    wearing out the poor mules— Dead weight, burdens who can't bear burdens,
    hauled off to captivity.

    3 -4 "Listen to me, family of Jacob,
    everyone that's left of the family of Israel. I've been carrying you on my back
    from the day you were born, And I'll keep on carrying you when you're old.
    I'll be there, bearing you when you're old and gray. I've done it and will keep on doing it,
    carrying you on my back, saving you.

    5 -7 "So to whom will you compare me, the Incomparable?
    Can you picture me without reducing me? People with a lot of money
    hire craftsmen to make them gods. The artisan delivers the god,
    and they kneel and worship it! They carry it around in holy parades,
    then take it home and put it on a shelf. And there it sits, day in and day out,
    a dependable god, always right where you put it. Say anything you want to it, it never talks back.
    Of course, it never does anything either!

    8 -11 "Think about this. Wrap your minds around it.
    This is serious business, rebels. Take it to heart. Remember your history,
    your long and rich history. I am God, the only God you've had or ever will have—
    incomparable, irreplaceable— From the very beginning
    telling you what the ending will be, All along letting you in
    on what is going to happen, Assuring you, 'I'm in this for the long haul,

    I'll do exactly what I set out to do,' Calling that eagle, Cyrus, out of the east,
    from a far country the man I chose to help me. I've said it, and I'll most certainly do it.
    I've planned it, so it's as good as done.

    12 -13 "Now listen to me:
    You're a hardheaded bunch and hard to help.
    I'm ready to help you right now.
    Deliverance is not a long-range plan.
    Salvation isn't on hold. I'm putting salvation to work in Zion now,
    and glory in Israel."


  • nomoreguilt

    Although I am using the nwt, I am applying the term OMNISCIENT as he has had OMNISCIENCE applied to his attributes. Thus, knowing the beginning from the end, all things.


  • Rapunzel

    It should also be noted that for well over the past one hundred years, scholars have realized that the book of Isaiah has at least three different authors. Chapters 1 through 39 were written before Assyria was poised to attack the northern kingdom of Israel in the eighth century B.C.E. Chapters 40 through 55 presuppose a situation in which the southern kingdom of Judah has been destroyed, and its people taken into exile in Babylon in the mid-sixth century B.C.E. Chapters 56 through 66 were written by yet a third, later prophet.

  • Rapunzel

    "That eagle, Cyrus" refers to Cyrus the Persian. The "prophet" here is referring to the fact that the Persians would liberate the Israelites from Babylonian captivity. The biblical writers had their own contexts, and thus, their own agendas. And those contexts and those agendas are not those of later [or earlier] peoples. The prophets were speaking only to their contemporaries. They were not crystal-ball gazers looking into the distant past or future.

  • nomoreguilt

    Did I lose something in the translation here, or did my thread get hijacked??? I just want to know about the truth of OMNISCIENCE on god's part!!!!! Does he or does he not KNOW the start and finish of every matter???????



  • Rapunzel

    "When one reads Bibles, one is less surprised at what the Deity knows than at what He doesn't know." - Mark Twain

    "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all of fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindicative, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." Richard Dawkins.

    Your thread has not been "hijacked." On the contrary, you have received responses. But it seems that you don't like the answers. Too bad for you. As has been stated, if you consider the context of the passage in Isaiah that you quote, you will see that the passage refers to a specific group of people, living in a specific era in history - namely the Israelites living in the period of Babylonian captivity before their liberation by Cyrus. As the previous poster has pointed out, the Witnesses can be faulted for having lost sight of - or for having purposely concealed - the fact that context is crucial; it determines everything.

    To restate Twain's idea in a different fashion, reading the Bible will leave you more surprised at what "God" does not know than at what "God" knows.

  • Moxie

    I've had this discussion before with my Dad (an elder). I asked if Jehovah is "all-knowing" then why has he done what he's done and allowed so many people to suffer in the process. If he could make the world a paradise, why is he waiting and letting so many people suffer, instead of allowing them to be born into this paradise...?

    His answer was: "There is free will, and God cannot or chooses not to see what decisions people will make and the outcome of those decisions." I also asked him why then he would tempt Adam and Eve with physically placing forbidden fruit bearing trees in the garden... he didn't really have an answer to that... what-ev...


  • R.Crusoe

    If you were to get statistics on the number of humans around born suffered/tortured and dead before ever hearing about a Bible, in the last century alone, you would wonder what your dad meant about god giving us free choice.

    If I look at nature based religions though which 'suspect' or believe humans get reincarnated/ reborn and so in this life they need be kind to all life so as to be reborn with dignity in some other, I think it feels right and also needs no book ready printed and posted to a jungle your living in someplace out of the way! Its natures law! And variations of it create no big problem - just interest in each others ideas and I think its pretty soulful!

    Inside my soul essences of some peoples belief feel aligned to nature!

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