by bite me 5 Replies latest watchtower bible
A thought came to my mind which is (obviously) why I am posting this.
Most of us were taught to understand that LORD refers to GOD and Lord refers to Jesus.
In AMOS chapter 3, for example both are identified. 3:11 talks about "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD..."
and if you go a litte furter to vs 12 it jus says LORD.
If the LORD= GOD and Lord = Jesus why does the verse say Lord GOD?
is Jesus and God both here in this scene?
LORD in capitals is a means of indicating the OT use of the tetragrammaton (Yahweh), following the convention in the LXX and Vulgate. But there are a few cases where the Hebrew word for "lord" would occur as a title for Yahweh, and thus "GOD" occurs instead of "LORD" because Lord LORD would pose a tautology. Amos 3:11 is an example of this, 'dny yhwh, or "Lord Yahweh". Here "lord" is used as a title for Yahweh. Now the NT did interpret OT passages referring to Yahweh as referring to Jesus, but there is no figure of Jesus in the OT itself.
Thanks Leolaia that does clear things up some. I've read the Bible through a few times when I was younger, but now as an adult I am actually paying more attention and trying to understand it more.
PS. 110:1
Of David. A melody.
1 The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
Here, as Jehovah's witnesses have specifically pointed out, "Lord" is a definitive reference to Jesus.
Elsewhere in the Bible, Jesus is the "angel of Jehovah" (Zech. 3:3) and has the specific name of "Michael" (Daniel 1:1), or the title of "archangel"; but more often carries the title of the "son of man."
Of anthropological literay interest, the heavenly identity of Jesus and Satan is quite clearly understood in Jewish tradition, with competition between the two and their followers first appearing in Eden. When Jehovah made the pronouncements to all those in Eden, there were five entities involved: The snake, Adam, Eve, Satan and Michael/Jesus. Satan and his/her followers are called "the woman and her seed." That is because in heaven Satan and Michael were actually considered special "companions", like man and woman, husband and wife, and Satan served the complimentary or feminine role of the wife. These two angels, husband and wife, Michael and Lucifer, are depicted as the two angels on top of the Ark of the Covenant. On the temple curtains the identities of the two angels alternate between the cherub with the face of a man, the consistent reference to Jesus himself, and the feminine figure of the "palm tree." Thus even in paganism, the palm tree figure becomes identified with the Mother Goddess whom Satan inspires in her own worship.
On yet another esoteric level of identification for Satan vs Christ, the symbolism for Christ is the number 12 and for Satan the number 9. Thus the twelve stones on the breastplate of the high priest, representing Jesus, are identifical to the stones depicted decorating Satan, except Satan only has nine stones compared to Jesus' 12. This lends to the diagramatic images for Jesus and Satan in the form of the square and the triangle, respectively. Likewise the 3-dimensional counterparts, the cube and the pyramid.
Ezk 28: 13 In E´den, the garden of God, you proved to be. Every precious stone was your covering, ruby, topaz and jasper; chrys´o·lite, onyx and jade; sapphire, turquoise and emerald; and of gold was the workmanship of your settings and your sockets in you. In the day of your being created they were made ready. 14 You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of God you proved to be. In the midst of fiery stones you walked about. 15 You were faultless in your ways from the day of your being created until unrighteousness was found in you.
(Compare with breastplate 12 stones, Ex. 28:17-20)
Further confirming the Jews in particular knew precisely this conceptual connection of Satan as a woman is demonstrated in their influence in Christian art via the image of "Lilith" a goddess depicted as a snake-woman who temps Eve in the Garden of Eden. It even appears that way on the Sistine Chapel:
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Topics/Lilith/aNePics.html
In paganism, therefore, inspired by Satan himself/herself in competition with Christ, I believe the general references are found in the concept of DUALISM, where Satan has presumed that Jehovah created him for a purpose and thus is responsible for Evil, Satan claiming, therefore, that he/she had no choice to to fulfill her destiny to become the epitome of evil, while Christ becomes the epitome of good. But Satan shows himself killing Jesus in various ways, since it was prophesied she would bruise Christ in the heel. This very edenic and fundamental competition takes many forms, but an obvious one is the "Lion vs the Bul." This is seen in Persian and Assyrian art. The Lion is linked with Satan and the Bull with Jesus.
This loosely reflects how the four living creatures that represent the entirety YHWH's qualities, is split loosely between Satan and Christ. That is the Lion, the Bull, the Man and the Eagle. The Bull and the Man are focussed toward Jesus, representing POWER and LOVE. The qualities of the eagle and the lion are more centered around Satan, which are WISDOM and JUSTICE; that is, intellectual and legal focal aspects.
But getting back to this esoteric competition, the lion versus the bull, Satan bruising the heel of Jesus, became Mithras killing the bull. Of course, Mithras is very much associated with the Lion, as Mithras is often depicted as the lion-heded:
http://www.farvardyn.com/mithras5.php
But please notice specifically the so-call "Phrygian" or "Persian" cap worn by Mithras. No symbolism is wasted in the esoteric imagery. I hvae my own theories as to why Mithras wears the Persian cap, maybe there is something written on it, but it is the same cap worn by a versian of Artemis, the mother goddess in the form of a new goddess from the Classical Period: BENDIS. Thus the Mother Goddess is connected specifically with Mithras and thus Satan:
Additionally, getting back to how the hair of Jehovah and Jesus are depicted as having hair like "wool" (Daniel 7:9, Rev 1:14), there is also a racial-ethnic overtone in the dualism. The shepherd versus the farmer. Jesus is associated with being the shepherd, Satan with the farmer. Thus Jesus' preference by Jehovah is esoterically contrasted by Cain and Abel, the farmer versus the shepherd. Satan is seen as the farmer, who only gives praise superficially, whereas Abel's sacrifice spills blood and thus is seen as more of a sacrifice.
In Eden, Satan is the beautiful woman, the epitome of that beauty being seen in the refined, recessive genes within humans, that is the Causian genes. Adam, the dominant male would carry the dominant human family genes, which are the Afroasiatic genes. Thus at some point in the competition between Satan and Jesus, the racial aspects are highlighted. That is, those of fair complexion versus those of dark complexion, which is one of the disturbing aspects occuring in "The Mysteries." It came to a forefront among the Canaanites, in particular, who being descendant of the black man Cain, the son of Cush, inspired to become fair-skinned, white and sophisticated. To accomplish this, they focussed on ethnic cleansing, killing off (and eating) their dark-skinned children. This was a form of Satan, the beautiful white goddess killing of Jesus, the wooly-headed black god. Below is a famous ivory motif of the Canaanites showing the Lion (Satan) killing the black child, just another form of the Lion vs the Bull, Mithras killing the Bull, Satan killing Jesus, the triangle dominating the square, etc.
Getting back to "Lord", therefore, in connection with Jesus. One has to consider that the Baal and Asherah marriage in the minds of pagans, this marriage between the male and female, is related to Jesus and Satan on some level. And thus the concept of "Lord" is a complex and deeply esoteric reference, not to be handled superficially or casually. Over time, obviously the clear figure of Michael the archangle and his beautiful wife, Lucifera?, got fused together and interchanged, etc.
But most importantly, the concept of Michael, the angel and son of god, as well as Satan and who she was, is quite extractable from Jewish pagan tradition as well as in the Bible, though some claiming to be such authorities in the matter claim there is on such reference, saying such absurbly inaccurate things like "but there is no figure of Jesus in the OT itself", which is quite simply either profoundly ignorant, or profoundly deceptive; and thus ultimately, profoundly ANNOYING and TIRESOME.
Thaaanks. That's all...
JCanon
All the books constituting the Bible have been 'selectively' banded together, in different time periods and from different locations, by humans from an age long passed and it behooves everyone to look at other books anywhere on Earth since surely all the Earth is Gods?
In so doing one may feel eventually compelled to look within rather than without , for answers about life and afterlife!
It is why I feel panentheism is a more soulful connection of who I am within the cycle of all nature. Life is in all things as it is in me! And I feel no need to pour out blood for my sin or that God would want it or even that sin is what some say it is.
Harm none seems a fair 'way' for me! It is enough!
Ancient beliefs are interesting and useful for pondering what others have believed.
But we are given a free choice thought process in order that we may do this and not be brainwashed that some blood spilled 2000 years ago is why our sins might be forgiven or even what those sins are!
I do not believe God needs any blood!
It makes no sense to my soul!
I have looked within!
Hello RC:
I believe your position is valid and recognized Biblically, because on Judgment Day, many who were not Jews are Christians will be judged by their choices of conscience! The positive "no harm" conscience you are relating to!
It is why I feel panentheism is a more soulful connection of who I am within the cycle of all nature. Life is in all things as it is in me! And I feel no need to pour out blood for my sin or that God would want it or even that sin is what some say it is.
Harm none seems a fair 'way' for me! It is enough!
Ancient beliefs are interesting and useful for pondering what others have believed.
So indeed, no, it is not necessary to convert to Christianity to find god. BUT.. you cannot exclude that specific scenario in the whole, per my view. That is, the Bible, Judaism and Christianity are part of everything and God's plan, though all are not directly involved with it. I don't think generalized panentheism invalidates the Bible or Christianity, but needs to be harmonized with it.
Case in point, there was always YHWH worship going on in other cultures before Judaism even took place. Melchizedek was a high-priest of YHWH at Jerusalem during the time of Abraham. What was that about? And Akhenaten, after experiencing the ten plagues, converted to a monotheistic recognition of YHWH as well in the form of the sun-god "Aten", a form of worship acknowledged and accepted by Jehovah (Isa 19:19), the Bible even mentioning the altar to YHWH that would be built in the middle of Egypt for him immediately after the Exodus.
Generally, during this transition period, thus, God does recognize the response to the internal good all men sense. The Bible, Christianity and Judaism are just SPECIFIC to the direct means of the salvation of mankind. Sort of like the priestly tribe of Levi being set aside for the specific, holy things.
God is perceived positively, I believe, in general ways by what he demonstrates in nature and in the heavens. So that positive response is recognized. But the Bible takes it to another level and adds the specific reality of God's mean for the salvation of mankind and the ridding of the universe of evil.
JC
