feet of iron and clay

edward gentry

need a take from you intensive research boys (and girls)
on Daniel 2 verse 43 wherin it says:
"whereas thou sawest iron mixed with mirey clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men,but they shall not cleave one to another"
Emphasis "THEY shall mingle with the seed of MEN".
Thus,"they" must be other than man.
incidentally Biblical racists believe this is "Beasts of the field",
preadamites racially mixing with the seed of Abraham but ignoring such erroneous hate beliefs it still possibly indicates
some kind of alien infiltration.
certainly the "clay" seems something other than...human.
explanations please?

Englishman

Edward G,

The new English Bible translates it: "...so shall men mix with each other by inter marriage."

Englishman.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

Justin

There are several options for an understanding of Daniel 2:43, "they will mingle with the seed of men." Of course, this refers to the great image which King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon saw in a dream, and which Daniel interpreted to him. It represented a succession of world powers, the final one (legs of iron), since the days of the Church Fathers, being understood as Rome, and the ten toes would represent an outgrowth of the Roman power. Whereas the legs were of pure iron, the mingling in the dream is portrayed as a mixture of iron and clay in the feet.

Dummelow's Commentary (p. 534), taking a critical view that the fourth kingdom is Greek and the toes are the breakup of Alexander's kingdom, nevertheless states that "There were elements both of strength and weakness in the rival kingdoms of the Seleucidae and Ptolemies," and that the mingling with the seed of men refers "to the royal marriages by which these kingdoms sought to establish alliance." So the mingling implies a weakness in the final phase of the world power structure.

But if we take the traditional view that the fourth kingdom is the Roman empire, and the ten toes are the breakup of that empire, we note that Macchiavelli, the Roman historian, described the empire as being divided among ten Gothic tribes, including the Lombards, Franks and Anglo-Saxons. C.T. Russell understood the toes to represent the nations of Europe, and he wrote in The Divine Plan of the Ages (pages 253-54): "In fact, the Roman Empire still continues, as represented in the nations of Europe. This division is represented in the ten toes of the image. The clay element blended with the iron in the feet represents the mixture of church and state." Followers of Herbert W. Armstrong, as well as dispensational fundamentalists, see the prophecy being fulfilled today in the emergence of the European Union. While the nations of Europe seem to be coming together to form a new superpower, they still have their differences which cause division.

When I was a JW (over 20 years ago), the WT understanding at the time seemed to be that the ten toes are all the earthly nations. Whether that has changed or not, I don't know. But it could be said that, in the form of the United Nations, they are coming together and are yet at the same time divided.

Regardless of which interpretation we accept (or if we accept any of them), the important climax of Daniel's prophecy is when the stone (God's kingdom) strikes the feet of the image and itself becomes a great mountain to fill the whole earth. Those of us who were JWs may no longer be Armageddon crazy, but we can hope that somehow, in some way, God's reign of peace will usher in the promised new age.

Prisca

Top post Justin, and welcome to the board.

I have always been interested in this subject, since my dad once gave a Public Talk on the statue and what it represented. Wasn't there a picture of this statue in the orange Paradise book? It's the one that remains burned in my brain.

ladonna

Hi Edward, nice to see you around,

Yep, I remember the old "feet of clay". I also took it to mean that "men" were not supposed to inter-marry.

Justin, I second Prisca, excellent post and a warm welcome.

Pris,

I remember that awful pic in the babylon book..think it was a red one, but my Dad kept shoving it under my nose after I left the WTBTS.
For some reason I never liked that book. ..lol's

Ana

edward gentry

Ladonna honey.
Im not around.
This thread was pposted in november last year.
nice to see you too.

ladonna

Edward, Sweety,

Sorry, I didn't look at the date! DUH!!!!!

Ana

Hey!!! Wait a second..you must be, you just replied

edward gentry

a mere spectre, haunting the hallowed halls of dubcom.

maybe i will start posting fred hall type posts. one liners.

Outlaw posts.
clip clop. clip clop. rides out of the snow storm..."howdy dude.Hey I thank yor a real nice person! Have a shit day!".

aChristian

What is represented by the feet of iron and clay spoken of in Daniel 2? To answer this question I think it helps to take a close look at the first four governments which were represented by the statue's head, its chest and arms, its belly and thighs, and its legs. They are widely understood to be Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Were these political powers represented as a part of that statue simply because of their political and military might? I don't think so.

Four heads of a seven headed beast in Revelation are also thought to represent these four governments, along with two other governments which came before them, Egypt and Assyria. I believe that determining what all six of these governments had in common may help us identify the government that is represented by the statue's feet of iron and clay and the seventh head of the beast in Revelation. Besides being strong political and military powers what did they have in common? The answer to this question seems clear to me. They all dominated and controlled ALL of God's covenant people.

Egypt enslaved all the Israelites. Assyria first captured Samaria, the capital of the ten-tribe nation of Israel, took all of northern Israel's residents as captives and repopulated their land with captives taken from its other conquests. Assyria then forced the remaining kingdom of Judah to submit to its authority in several ways, including paying it heavy tributes in order to avoid receiving the same treatment given to the ten-tribe kingdom. Babylon desolated the land of Judah and took all of its people as captives to Babylon. Though Cyrus freed the Jewish people and allowed them to return to Jerusalem, later Persian kings forcibly stopped the rebuilding of Jerusalem and its Temple, adversely affecting the spiritual lives of all of God's people. Between the years 168 and 165 BC Syrian king Antiochus IV of the Grecian empire completely outlawed all practices of the Jewish religion under penalty of death. And, as we know, Rome not only executed Jesus Christ but entirely outlawed Christianity throughout the Roman empire, greatly affecting the lives of every Christian then on earth.

With these things in mind, I believe the feet of iron and clay most likely represent a world government yet to come which will outlaw Christianity and persecute all Christians on earth. For only a truly World Government could do such a thing today. Since, unlike the situation that existed in ancient times, God's covenant people now live in every corner of the world. Such a "one world government" will no doubt be a very fragile and unstable alliance, much like a material made of iron and of clay.

Daniel 2:43 tells us in the NIV Bible that, "The people will be a mixture and will not remain united." I believe this verse is telling us that shortly before God's kingdom replaces all man made governments, the World Government that will then exist, by means of an unstable alliance of all nations on earth, will begin to fall apart.

feet of iron and clay

Share this