Deuteronomy 32:7-9 Who is the Most High?

by Steve J 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Steve J
    Steve J

    Please excuse me if you've discussed this topic before, but as a "Newbie" I haven't found anything on it as yet.

    7 Remember the days of old, Consider the years back from generation to generation; ask your father and he can tell you; your old men and they can say it to you. 8 When the Most High gave the nations an iheritance, When he parted the sons of Adam fron one another, He proceeded to fix the boundary of the peoples with regard for the sons of Israel. 9 For Jehovah's share is his people; Jacob is the allotment that he inherits. 10 He came to find him in a wilderness land, And in an empty, howling desert. He began to encircle him, to take care of him, To safegaurd him as the pupil of his eye. 11 Just as an eagle stirs up its nest, Hovers over its fledglings. Spreads out its wings, takes them, Carries them on its pinions, 12 Jehovah alone kept leading him, And there was no foreign god along with him. (Deut 23:7-9. NWT)

    Here in the "Song of Moses," verse 9 tells us "Jehovah's share is his people; Jacob is the allotment that he inherits."

    The dictionary definition of "inherit," is; "To receive by legal descent or succession. Derive from ones parents or ancestors. Succeed as an heir."

    In verse 8 it seems to be the "Most High," who aportioned the nations.

    Does this suggest that the Most High and Jehovah are two seperate individuals and Jehovah inherited Jacob from the Most High?

    Steve J

  • Narkissos
  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Yeah, and the text was revised in antiquity to obscure this (polytheistic) implication:

    4QDeut j : "When Elyon gave the nations as an inheritance, when he separated the sons of man, he set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God (bny 'l[hym]). For Yahweh's portion was his people; Jacob was the lot of his inheritance".
    LXX: "When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the boundaries of the nations according to the number of the angels of God (aggelón theou). And his people Jacob became the portion of the Lord, Israel was the line of his inheritance".
    MT: "When Elyon gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all the sons of man, he set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel (bny yshr'l). For Yahweh's portion was his people, Jacob was the lot of his inheritance".

    The oldest form of the text in the Dead Sea Scrolls posits Yahweh as one of the "sons of God" who received Israel from Elyon (= El-Elyon elsewhere in the OT) as his own "inheritance". This accords with the Canaanite belief in Ugaritic texts that El fathered seventy sons through Asherah, and the number of the nations in Genesis 10 which add up to seventy. This henotheistic conceptualization of the tutelary gods of the nations can also be detected in such passages as Judges 11:24, 1 Kings 11:33, and Jeremiah 48:7, and in the scenario in Daniel 10 (in which each nation has its own angelic "prince") which has been assimilated to monotheism. These are also angels in the LXX, which reflects the original wording of bny 'lhym (as this is how this phrase is usually rendered in the LXX), and yet the reference to angels instead of "sons of God" similarly assimilates the scenario to monotheism. Moreover, the implication that Yahweh (= "the Lord" in the LXX) is himself a "son" or "angel of God" is precluded by the removal of a reference to allotments in the first clause. Finally, the latest form of the text in the MT displays other modifications that mitigate a polytheistic or henotheistic reading. The verb bhnchl in the first clause is pointed in a way that implies that inheritance is something received by the nations, rather than that the inheritance consists of the nations themselves. Second, "sons of Israel" occurs in place of "sons of God," which obscures the relationship being Yahweh inheriting his people and the division of the peoples according to the number of the "sons of God".

    Nor is this an isolated example. In v. 43 we find another example of polytheism (or perhaps more accurately, henotheism) being airbrushed from the text:

    4QDeut j : "Rejoice, O heavens, together with him, and bow down to him all you gods ('lym), for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and will render vengeance to his enemies, and will recompense those who hate him, and will atone for the land of his people".
    LXX: "O heavens, rejoice with him, bow to him, all sons of God. O nations, rejoice with his people and let all the angels of God strengthen themselves in him. For he will avenge the blood of his sons. Be vengeful and render vengeance and recompense justice on his enemies, and recompense those who hate him, and the Lord will cleanse the land of his people".
    MT: "Rejoice, O nations, with his people, for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his enemies, and will atone for the land of his people".

    The MT text is poetically defective in terms of parallelism, with a complete bicolon in the second and third clauses (avenge / render vengeance), without an accompanying clause in the first and fourth clauses to complete the two other bicolons (rejoice / ???, ??? / atone). The older form of the text in the Dead Sea Scrolls, on the other hand, has three well-balanced bicolons (rejoice / bow down, avenge / render vengeance, recompense / atone), and thus is probably closer to the original. The MT text replaces the personified or divinized "heavens" with "nations" and omits the "bow down" clause that makes reference to heavenly gods (i.e. "gods" in parallelism with "heavens"). The alteration of "heavens" to "nations" was apparently fairly early, for the LXX harmonizes the two readings by inserting an extra bicolon in the text that makes reference to "nations". It is also possible that this extra bicolon is original but the longer text is poetically less balanced.

  • Steve J
    Steve J

    Hi Leolaia & Narkissos,

    Thanks for the info and the link to your previous discussion, I found it fascinating to see how the text was revised to fit more comfortably with a monotheistic faith. I especially liked your post about the Canaanite god El and him having 70 sons and how this seems to fit with Genesis 10 and the 70 nations, but this has left me with even more questions, which might seem obvious to you, but here goes;

    Is there a link between El and Elohim of Genesis 1 and do you believe the Creation account there is based on Canaanite mythology?

    I have also found other suggestions of polytheism in ancient Israel, such as Josephus writing about Abram. that "he was the first man to publish the notion that there was but one God, the Creator of the universe." (Antiquities Bk.1 Ch VII.1)

    This would certainly suggest that before Abram other gods were worshiped apart from YHWH wouldn't it?

    And what about the Teraphim, which I believe were Semetic house-gods?

    We know from the Hebrew Scriptures they were tollerated by Jacob and his descendants right up until the time of King Josiah and probably later. It seems then that a polytheistic belief was nothing new to the Israelites then was it?

    One final point was to do with something Narkissos said in the previous discussion that I picked up on;

    In Semitic languages, a son of (a) god is basically a god, just as a son of (a) man is a man.

    In looking at the Greek Scriptures afresh, I haven't as yet, come accross an instance where Jesus ever refers to himself as the "Son of God," but on numerous occasions he refers to himself as the "Son of Man," which suggests to me that he was emphasising his motality. What did the title "Son of Man" mean?

    Like many JW's I once thought I had a fairly good knowledge of the Scriptures.

    Laughable isn't it?

    But since leaving and approaching them as if for the first time, I've been amazed at how little I actually knew about the Bible. Like many I think I've learned so much more since getting out and am really enjoying my own research now and finding these new thoughts.

    At the moment I don't know what to believe, but I'm certainly enjoying the freedom.

    Thanks again

    Steve J

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    Like many JW's I once thought I had a fairly good knowledge of the Scriptures.

    Laughable isn't it? Not really its sad

    Me too!!! But KNOWLEDGE puffs up ...We HAD all the Knowledge The WT wanted us to know
    Since leaving I am AMAZED at how little I really knew about the REAL truth.> Whom I now believe to be JESUS...WAY!TRUTH,LIFE! No wonder so many doors were slammed in our face .I used to think it was because we were fulfilling "they have ears"
    Now I know its because they KNEW we were NUTS & Under mind control (((HUGS))) Great post lad

  • Steve J
    Steve J

    Hi Mouthy,

    We HAD all the Knowledge The WT wanted us to know

    Good point, but I beg to differ on the previous statement;

    But KNOWLEDGE puffs up

    I firmly believe with true knowledge comes humility and the more you get to know, you find the more there is to know.

    Thanks for your kind words anyway.

    Steve J

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    firmly believe with true knowledge comes humility and the more you get to know, you find the more there is to know.

    But I call that WISDOM XXXX The HOLY SPIRIT Teaches that XX

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Is there a link between El and Elohim of Genesis 1 and do you believe the Creation account there is based on Canaanite mythology?

    Well, 'lhym is a distinct Israelite term for God that probably dates after the merger of El and Yahweh, tho it has its origins as a term for the divine assembly (cf. the Eloim in the Phonecian creation myth of Philo of Byblos, who are described as the allies of El/Kronos), although 'lym is more common in this sense (cf. Ugaritic 'lm "gods" and 'lym in Exodus 15:11, Deuteronomy 32:43, Job 41:25, 1QM 1:11, 1QH 7:28, etc.) and bny 'lym and bny (h)-'lhym even more so (cf. Genesis 6:2-3, Job 1:6, 2:1, Psalm 29:1, 89:6, etc.). Even though El has been conflated with Yahweh in most of the OT, we still see an especial relationship between the divine council and El in the language that is used; hence, the bny 'lhym are kwkby bqr "morning stars" in Job 38:7, which corresponds to the kwkby 'l "stars of El" in Isaiah 14:12, and the hr mw'd "mountain of assembly" in the same verse evokes the 'dt 'l "assembly of El" in Psalm 82:1 and the hr 'lhym "mountain of the gods" of Ezekiel 28:16. All of this has a Canaanite foundation, as the bn 'il "sons of El" are referred to as the 'dt bn 'ilm "assembly of the sons of El", the 'dt 'ilm "assembly of the gods", the pchr m'd "council of the assembly", and the pchr kkbm "council of the stars" in Ugaritic texts (cf. KTU 1.4.III.14, 1.2.I.14-16, 1.15.II.7, 11, etc.), and the council is convened by El at the gr 'il "mountain of El" (KTU 1.2.I.14). Of course, this is related to the broader ANE belief that the gods are gathered in a council on a cosmic mountain (cf. Mount Olympus in the case of Greek mythology, Mount Hermon in Ugaritic mythology, and also cf. 1 Enoch 6:6, which depicts the fallen angels as gathered together on Mount Hermon, and the reference to the Shaddai-gods forming a mw`d "council" in the 8th century BC Book of Balaam son of Beor Inscription).

    The Priestly creation narrative in Genesis 1 is a late reformulation of ideas found in Psalm 104 and other sources, toning down some of the more overt mythological themes found in the poetic literature (such as the conquering of the sea/deep in Psalm 104:6-8, which is expressed more fully in the combat myth of Job 26:12-13, Psalm 89:9-10, Isaiah 27:1, 51:9-10, Baba Batra 74b, cf. Enuma Elish, COS 1.111, IV.93-130, KTU 1.2.IV.19-34, 1.5.I.1-4, Hesiod, Theogony 820, etc.). The plural "us" of Genesis 1:26 however is an echo of the older idea of the divine assembly, mentioned more overtly in Job 38:7: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation ... while the morning stars sang together and the sons of God shouted for joy". The Deutero-Isaiah portrayal of creation is markedly different by depicting Yahweh as alone: "I am Yahweh, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, when I spread out the earth, who was with me?" (Isaiah 44:24). This may have been a deliberate response to the Priestly creation account, as there are many other counterpoints in this section of Deutero-Isaiah (cf. Isaiah 40:18, 46:5 on Yahweh not having an "image" or "likeness" as implied in Genesis 1:26, Isaiah 45:7, 18 on Yahweh not creating the earth a waste and having darkness precede light as in Genesis 1:2, Isaiah 40:48 on Yahweh not growing tired or weary as implied in Genesis 2:2-3, the rhetorical question in Isaiah 40:41 that implies a failure to understand how the earth was founded, etc.). Although the Priestly narrative has 'lhym in view instead of 'l "El" as the creator, there is a vestige of the older Canaanite tradition in the non-Priestly narrative in ch. 14, which uses the old Canaanite epithet 'l `lywn qnh shmym h-'rts "El-Elyon, creator of heavens and earth," a designation elsewhere attested in variant form in extrabiblical ANE sources (e.g. the 12th century BC Hittite DN Ilkunirsha < 'l qn 'rs "El, creator of the earth", 'l qn 'rts "El, creator of the earth" in the 8th century BC Karatepe Inscription, ]qn 'rts in an 8th century BC Jerusalem ostracon, 'lqwnr` in the first century AD Palmyra Inscription, b`shmyn qnh dy r` in the Hatra Inscription, 'l qn 'rts in the second century AD Leptis Magna Inscription, etc.). The other main primitive El text outside of the Balaam traditions in Numbers (which utilize Shaddai and El as DNs, cf. "He hears the word of El, he sees what Shaddai makes him see" in Numbers 24:3-4) is the Blessing of Jacob in Genesis 49:24b-26:

    "By the hands of the Bull of Jacob ('byr y`qb, cf. 'l y`qb "El of Jacob" in Psalm 146:5-6 and tr 'il "Bull El" in Canaanite texts, e.g. KTU 1.1.III.5, tr 'il 'ab "Bull El, your Father"), by the name of the shepherd, the Rock of Israel, by El your Father ('l 'byk) who helps you, by El Shaddai ('l shdy) who blesses you, with the blessings of heaven above, with the blessings of the Deep (thwm) crouching beneath, with the blessings of Breast and Womb (shdym w-rchm, cf. shdy "Shaddai" in the OT and Asherah and Rahmay/Womb, consorts of El, in KTU 1.23.R.12-13). The blessings of your Father are mighty, the blessings of the mountains of the Eternal One, the bounties of the hills of Olam ('wlm, cf. 'l 'wlm "El Olam" in Genesis 21:22, Psalm 90:1-3, etc., El as the 'b shnm "father of years" in KTU 1.2.III.5, the El-like `tyq ywmyn "ancient of days" of Daniel 7:9)".

    So there is a considerable imprint of older traditions in the henotheistic scheme of the OT.

    I have also found other suggestions of polytheism in ancient Israel, such as Josephus writing about Abram. that "he was the first man to publish the notion that there was but one God, the Creator of the universe." (Antiquities Bk.1 Ch VII.1) This would certainly suggest that before Abram other gods were worshiped apart from YHWH wouldn't it?

    Well, Josephus is rather late and mostly interprets received biblical traditions (cf. Joshua 24:2 and the midrashic Abraham legends in Jubilees 12:1-14, Pseudo-Philo 6:1-18), and the patriarchal traditions in Genesis themselves construct a history of Yahwism that is probably more ideological than historical. In reality, polytheism and henotheism defined the religion of Israel and Judah throughout the pre-exilic period, peppered with rather brief reforms like those of Hezekiah and Josiah, as the Deuteronomistic History relates in polemical fashion. It is not until Deutero-Isaiah where we find true montheism.

    And what about the Teraphim, which I believe were Semetic house-gods?

    The references are rather obscure, but yes, these are relevant. More relevant to the monarchical period are the many references to Israelite iconism in the Deuteronomistic History, such as the asherim and the baalim, the Nehushtan, the masseboth, the golden bulls of Jeroboam, etc. etc.

    We know from the Hebrew Scriptures they were tollerated by Jacob and his descendants right up until the time of King Josiah and probably later. It seems then that a polytheistic belief was nothing new to the Israelites then was it?

    It wasn't merely "tolerated", it was Israelite religion, it was what any observer would have seen in Israel or Judah, it was state-sponsored and official, apart from the few reformist kings and prophets who pressed for an aniconic and exclusive Yahwism. Even that tho is not true monotheism....monolatrous Yahwism did not deny that other gods exist, it only demanded that Yahweh alone be worshipped.

    In looking at the Greek Scriptures afresh, I haven't as yet, come accross an instance where Jesus ever refers to himself as the "Son of God," but on numerous occasions he refers to himself as the "Son of Man," which suggests to me that he was emphasising his motality. What did the title "Son of Man" mean?

    In the gospels, there are TWO distinct usages of the expression "son of man". One is the typical non-titular use of it simply meaning "man". For instance, Mark 2:27-28 says that "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath, so the son of man is the lord of the sabbath". This passage does not portray Jesus as claiming to be a unique "lord of the sabbath", it simply means that the needs of man have precedence over the demands of the sabbath, i.e. the sabbath isn't the lord of man and may be "broken" if life is at stake. But there are other "son of man" passages in the gospels that have a distinct apocalyptic character; they portray a "Son of Man" as eschatological judge who comes on the clouds of heaven, with great power, accompanied with the angels, who sits on the throne of glory, who executes judgment, etc. (cf. Matthew 10:23, 13:41, 16:27-28, 19:28, 24:27-44, 25:31, Mark 8:38, 13:26, 14:62, etc.), and Jesus is portrayed as using this eschatological title as a self-descriptor (e.g. Mark 8:31, 9:9-12, 14:41). This title is based on an exegesis of Daniel 7:13-14, where "one like a son of man" is not yet a title but introduces the motifs of coming/arrival, judgment, clouds, glory, etc. It was however developed into a messianic title in the pre-Christian (Essene?) Book of Parables of 1 Enoch, written in the first century AD, and this text is something like a missing link between Daniel and the NT usage of the title (e.g. "He sat on the throne of his glory, and all judgment was given to the Son of Man", 1 Enoch 69:27; compare Matthew 25:31 and John 5:22).

  • Jon Preston
    Jon Preston

    Marked

  • jhine
    jhine

    marked

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