by IP_SEC 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
Who did not defile themselves with women.
The 144000 are all men. They did not defile themselves with women... unless perhaps John was taking the Isle of Lesbos into consideration too?
Ok 144k male virgins... No wonder it has taken so long for joehoovah to choose the li'l flock!!
Who did not defile themselves with women.
Makes me wonder if Paul of Tarsus wasnt really the writer of Rev.
this patriarchal shit drives me over the edge.....
Paula was such a ma-cheese-mo! ;)
To quote Robin Williams.....
"It's Virginians, a$$hole".
Interesting post IP_SEC.
Who did not defile themselves with women.
The 144000 are all men. They did not defile themselves with women... unless perhaps John was taking the Isle of Lesbos into consideration too?
Ok 144k male virgins... No wonder it has taken so long for joehoovah to choose the li'l flock!!
I wonder what this means? Obviously, there's some literary or interpretive license here since we're dealing with Revelation. But if this is not taken literally, then what could "defiling by women" have a reference to, and what would their being "virgins" have reference to? Hmmmm, I suppose I should check out what the WTS claims is the understanding of this before weighing in. In this context though, Babylon the Great is said to be a "harlot" and elsewhere that those approved by God did not have either the mark of the beast on their hands or their forehead. Thus not being defiled by the wild beast. So I'm wondering if this doesn't have something specifically to do with the "mark of the beast" or connection with defilement by the BTG "Mysteries"? Another hint is at Revelation 2:6 where it notes "Still, you have this, that you hate the deeds of the sect of Nicolaus, which I also hate." So maybe we're missing a fine point of focus here not yet appreciated. These members of Christ's Bride class are undefiled by women and are virgins in some spirtual sense, and I'd say, likely in connection with BTG and the "mysteries." So maybe this is saying they are virgins with respect to some aspects of "The Mysteries"? Hmmmm. THANKS. I know what this likely references about them being virgins. It's great! I hadn't appreciated this before. In fact, now I'm pretty sure what this is talking about. Amazing!!! I won't go into it here, but there's a certain very subtle "corrupting" factor that occurs in connection with the mysteries that I think Christ and Jehovah are taking aim at as an important sub-theme for selecting or excluding members of the kingdom, and I think not being corrupted by this corruption by the beast on the hand or forehead constitutes that they are "virgins" in regard to this specific type of corruption. If my assessment is accurate, then it would mean the exclusion of a certain demographic as part of the Bride Class, which is interesting. But as much has already been implied when the Bible says it is next to impossible for a "rich man" to get into the kingdom, more difficult for him to get into the kingdom than a "camel" (knot/camel hump in the thread) to get through the eye of a needle. That is, once the thread bunches up behind the eye of a needle you can't get it through. The few threads that do get through look like the skinny neck of a camel that get through but are stopped by the larger body. That's what I'm thinking this is another reference to. The "Mysteries" must be seen to corrupt in that sense, creating (for last of a better reference) the "rich-man factor." But here's the thing. There is only one demographic who can be corrupted by the RM factor. I don't want to be rude but there are two types of people in regard to being rich or not rich. This one particular demographic can be converted or corrupted into becoming "rich men" by a lot of money. Those outside that demographic are immune to this corruption. They don't become "rich men" just men with money. So in terms of the 144,000 Bride class, this would suggest that no "rich men" are selected, which is sort of an insider tit-for-tat going on between Jehovah and Satan, since the "Mysteries" are also central to the RM factor. What this translates to on a weird "spiritual level" is similar to what happened in WWI in the US where everybody Japanese were put into internment camps, "just to be safe." Japanese people generally were not Christians, they had another religion, they looked different, there were issues of their ties and loyalties to Japan, etc. So it was complex. So just to be safe, all of them were taken out of the general population just because they were Japanese. What that did was eliminated the need to second-guess US or Japanese loyalties or any inherent conflict therein. There wasn't room for compromise. Another bad example, perhaps is where one member of a team goofs up in the military and then the entire team gets punished by having to run extra laps or do extra pushups or something. That kind of mentality. Where there is "guilt by association". So this particular demographic that Satan likes to target apparently is paying for that by being excluded from the kingdom, which is interesting. Actually, a better term for what this means could be understood as "reverse discrimination" because of Satan. Here's one more example. You know the snake in the Garden of Eden that Satan used? Satan spoke through the snake who would basically have otherwise been an innocent bystander? But because Satan used that snake, through no collaboration of its own, it still got punished! God caused it to lose its legs and to crawl on its belly and to eat dust. But someone might say, "Well, what did the snake do? It wasn't its fault Satan used it." Right. But the point here is, the snake got punished by simple association, sort of spitefully. Not as a message necessarily to the snake but a message to how upset God was with Satan. So it's like an extra little message. So in the big picture, this certain demographic whom Satan tends to focus on, is like Satan's preference for a snake. Since a snake is very cautious and cunning, likely a creature with which Satan identifies with more than others, etc. But because Satan chooses the snake, the snake gets punished because of that choice. So God likewise seems to be excluding this certain demographic because of Satan, much like the snake in Eden. It is as if Satan is so reprehensible in God's eyes and so unclean, that the snake was seen corrupted and ruined by Satan having corrupted it. Further, Satan is called a "woman" at Genesis 3:15. The occult mysteries also understands that Satan is a woman...
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Topics/Lilith/aNePics.html
So this is HEAVY. This doesn't mean if you have the RM factor you can't get eternal life on the earth though, its just that Christ and Jesus perhaps prefer that exclusion. It's like Moses being excluded from entering the promised land. It doesn't mean he was disapproved by God. The snake paid an extra price because of Satan, which is unfortunate. But regardless, that was God's option to exclude on that basis if he wishes.
So it's sort of like those who have a natural advantage in Satan's world, have an equally natural disadvantage as far as the kingdom. What Satan has chosen to defile, like the snake, is completely excluded so that the Bride Class are completely holy, like virgins, undefiled by "women", meaning the Mysteries/BTG likely.
But still, this is a very good way to illustrate it. Because a person is only a virgin once.
OH! Here's another example I just thought of. JUDAS! Now Christ had to be betrayed, right? It was written. In advance. Everybody knows it. But still, even though someone had to betray Jesus for everything to come together, still it is woe to that person through whom that betrayal occurred. Thus once Judas left, Satan was said to have entered into Judas. Even though Judas felt sorry later, it was too late. He's forever lost.
But being of the anointed, I know what this means now. It's sort of hard to explain but I think you see what direction I'm taking this. Put it this way. In the rebellion in Eden, Satan, Eve, Adam and the snake get punished. Eve was totally deceived and the Snake just was a cautious animal. But because Satan corrupted them, they ended up having to be excluded, just like when something unclean touches something clean. What is unclean makes what is clean unclean. It's not the other way around. But in the big picture, it turns out that being a snake is an ultimate disadvantage in the big picture. It would have been preferable to be something else.
Another concept of this? COLLATERAL DAMAGE. I'm fairly certain this is what is being referred to here.
Never mind! I know what this means. Don't worry about it. It's symbolic. God is excluding those "defile by women" which is a cryptic reference, but this defilement is only possible with a certain natural demographic in the population anyway. It's unfortunate, but it makes sense.
THANKS. Ironically, though I hadn't focussed on this before, just the idea of that exclusion makes me feel better. I'm not entirely sure why.
JC
P.S. Let me put it one more way. Being extremely "beautiful" is advantageous and valuable in Satan's Perfect World. Being extremely beautiful is of no particular value or advantage in Christ's Perfect World. But Jehovah has decided since it is an advantage in Satan's world, to make it a disadvantage in Christ's world. So if you're "beautiful" you can't get in. But that makes all the "ugly Bettys" happy because its a world where there are no vanity issues. All that time with make-up. All that time with hair. All that time trying to find the right clothes. Those things are not factors in a world of ugly Bettys. Of course, a gay man has little use for a beautiful woman, if you get my drift.
Hmm, The New Order: a new world full of ugly Bettys and gay men. Definitely a message in there somewhere....
But Jehovah has decided since it is an advantage in Satan's world, to make it a disadvantage in Christ's world. So if you're "beautiful" you can't get in.
LOL, FOR REAL????????
That is bad news for all those hot JW Christian men and women.
Someone should really warn them to get UGLY now while they still can
I'm not making fun of you, JC, but that sentence made me pause and wonder.
WOW!! I got JC to comment on my thread!! How cool is that?!
LOL, FOR REAL????????
That is bad news for all those hot
JWChristian men and women.Someone should really warn them to get UGLY now while they still can
I'm not making fun of you, JC, but that sentence made me pause and wonder.
Well, I can't blame you for taking it that way, I was being rather cryptic but "beautiful" was in quotes and in the context of something else more specific I'm avoiding saying. But the principal remains the same, i.e. all snakes got punished for what one snake was involved in. That's an interesting observation of the final outcome of things....I find.
JC
I was being rather cryptic but "beautiful" was in quotes and in the context of something else more specific I'm avoiding saying. But the principal remains the same, i.e. all snakes got punished for what one snake was involved in. That's an interesting observation of the final outcome of things....I find.
Good Evening JC,
I just read your lengthy post and I think I know what you are alluding to.
I am sending you a PM.
