by kevin221 9 Replies latest jw friends
Sorry if this is a dumb question but I'd like to know. Are they like on the same level of say a Priest, or more like a Deacon. Jon's father is an elder and he's the biggest wack job I've ever seen so I can't see how they could have much authority in any church that was worth being a member of.
Just wondering,
Kevin
The WT's own spokesmen refer to them as untrained volunteers.
Kevin - they are "the shepherds" to the "flock". They are basically the same thing as priests - they are there to comfort & provide spiritual guidence. They are held in high regard by the entire congregation, and if they said it was time to jump off the cliff because god said to, the entire congregation would rush to do it. Jon's father sounds to be an extremist, but I'm sure there are many like him.
Hi Kevin: The Bible shows that Elders are those who have attained spiritual maturity in Christian living, and serve newer Christians in helping them build faith, and walk with Christ. Anyone, man or women can be such an 'elder' as an act of service, the same as anyone can act as a servant (deacon) to care for the physical and spiritual needs of others.
Unfortunately, many religions, especially the highly organized authoritarian type, confuse 'service' with 'office or position' and tend to set up some heirarchy or organizational levels of authority.
Fortunately, many Christians have seen through the organizational trappings, and find their way back to being of 'service' from the heart.
Amazing
Organized to Accomplish our Ministry beginning page 10:
Overseers to Shepherd the Flock
During his earthly ministry Jesus proved himself to be a Fine Shepherd.(John 10:11)
Peter wrote: “Therefore,…shepherd the flock og God in your care, not under compulsion, but willingly; neither for love of dishonest gain, but eagerly; neither as lording it over those who are God’s inheritance, but becoming examples to the flock.”—1 Peter 5:1-3
1 Tim 3:1-7; and Titus 1:5-9 state some more qualifications.
They would not be without sin. But they would be known in the congregation and in the community as being upright and God-fearing, men who had demonstrated over a period of time that they conduct their life entirely on the basis of God’s principles. Their blamelessness would give them feeeness of speech before others in the congregation.
Generally, men appointd as overseers are recommended for appointment by the local body of elders. This is done during regular visits of the circuit overseer. However, the Governing Body may appoint men who qualify to serve as overseers in any locality at any time. The Governing Body is not bound by the recommendations of any local group. Such recommendations serve merely as a guide and may ever be rejected for reasons well known to the Governing Body. Also, at times, the Governing Body may authorize certain representatives to make appointments of overseers.
Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...
* http://watchtower.observer.org/ click on secret books, then pay attention to yourelves and all the flock all over the net.
Alternatively referred to as the "Fleece the Flock" book or the "Pay Attention or Else" book.
Someone with no life,who would like to run your`s!
From what I've seen OUTLAW, that about sums up the average elder!
Elders share counseling, teaching and congregational administrative duties. Most elders are good at one of the three, some are good at two of the three and there is even a rare elder out there who can do all three well.
Most of the elders I have known were pretty good administrators, which is the easiest of the 3 tasks. A few more were fairly decent public speakers who could teach the basic teachings of the Watchtower Society so that people could comprehend even some of the more esoteric 3500 days til the tabernacle is cleansed kind of teachings.
Very few were good counselors who could listen, empathize and actually had either a knowledge or natural ability to help someone through a crisis situation.
Above and beyond that, unfortunately there is a political quality to elder arrangements that has, over the years, established a good ol boys network, that allows people with none of these qualities to politic their way into elder positions. I have heard my dad speak of this even in concern to my home congregation where he is still an elder, he talks about this one or that one swaying a vote towards recommending somebody for some position.
The politicking, in my opinion, is the major reason nutcases like you describe Jon's father as, get to be and stay as elders and also, in my opinion, it is one of the reasons the Watchtower Society is as completely screwed up as it is.
hugs
Joel
Hello everyone,
quite an interesting question.
With great respect for other opinions and viewpoint,
I do personally agree with Amazing's statement:
"1) The Bible shows that Elders are those who have attained spiritual maturity in Christian living, and serve newer
Christians in helping them build faith, and walk with Christ.
2) Anyone, man or women can be such an 'elder' as an act of service, the same as anyone can act as a servant (deacon) to care for the physical and spiritual needs of others.
3) Unfortunately, many religions, especially the highly organized authoritarian type, confuse 'service' with 'office or position' and tend to set up some heirarchy or organizational levels of authority.""
Excellent comments and very true...for the WTBS' organisation.
Greeting, J.C.MacHislopp
" One who has an accurate knowledge
of God's Word will have no problem
in refuting false religious ideas".
Kevin,
I think you got all of the right responses already, but just wanted to let you know that I'm happy to see you posting here!
Did you want to share the kind of shenanigans Jon's dad is putting you through? If it would help you to vent, I'm willing to listen.
[email protected]
outnfree
Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
