Is it LOVING to try and get JWs out?

by Sirona_Celtic 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • Sirona_Celtic


    First of all, let me make it clear that I have left the WTS, and I don't agree with its teachings (mostly, the organisation presented as "gods prophet").

    I have a few family members who are JWs. Does everyone here think it is loving of us to tell them all the things that the WTS have done wrong? Once they realise that the WTS is corrupt, they experience

    1. Complete loss of their faith, so much so that they dont know *who* to trust and may experience tremendous emotional pain and hurt at this discovery
    2. Guilt at leaving despite what they know
    3. Shunning from other JWs and family members
    4. Possibly loss of employment if they worked with JWs

    The list goes on...

    I realise that it is not the person who reveals the corruption who is at fault in all of this, it is the WTS, who shouldnt be corrupt in the first place. However, I have a couple of family members who seem quite happy in their ignorance and who perhaps due to advancing age would very likely not be able to cope with the upheaval of leaving the borg. I find myself keeping quiet around them knowing that they are 'happy' (of a sort) and often not really interested in reasoning it all out again.

    Dont you think that perhaps in some cases, its best to lay off certain individuals? I agree wholeheartedly with exposing the organisation as a whole, and those at the top. I just know how hard this has been for me (although I dont regret it). I also know someone else who simply couldnt cope with this loss in his faith and attempted suicide (and now is has bitter hate of ANY God).

    What do you think, should we tell them or let them stay in their ignorant bliss?


  • wannahelp

    Hi Sirona,

    I'm not, nor have I ever been a JW, but I have a friend who is one..

    I did alot of research on JW's because of him, and ultimatly found the "truth" about the "truth".. I've wrestled with your dilemna many times in recent months, as I wasn't sure if I should continue to show him things or not, as I believe he does have some "semblence" of happiness in his current state of what he believes is the "truth"..

    My ultimate conclusion was to be his friend no matter what his choices are/were/will be. And, yes, it's very possible and probable that because I am a "worldly" person, that he will ultimatly break contact with me, especially now that he is engaged.. And if that is what he needs to do to be "happy", then that is a sacrifice this friend is willing to make..

    He is well aware that I know alot about the religion, and in fact he knows that I have presented many questions to him that he cannot answer. (Two that his father, a respected elder could not answer either.. I can only assume of the ruckus that caused in the house <grin>)

    So, deep inside I'm satisfied that he knows that I know "stuff" that may be detrimental to his belief system.. If nothing else, he knows beyond a shadow of a doubght that if he even brings up religion with me, that he ends up at the end of the conversation with more questions. I know that bothers him!!

    But, being a friend to him means I don't push him.. He knows, and if he asks, I'll be here to tell him.. If he doesn't ask, then he knows I'll be here to help him in any other way I can...

    Basically, I figure if his curiousity has become sooo strong that he needs to 'know' then he is ready to have the curtain lifted.. If he's not, then he won't ask.. And the only way I'll know if he is curious is if he asks...

    And he has asked occasionally.. Nothing big, but you can tell he is thinking.. For instance, he know's that I have read both books by Ray Franz.. One night we were talking about the Governing Body, and why Ray left.. I told him that I know how he thinks the GB works (They think it's a 100% unanamous decision, and the entire body agrees with everything, when in fact, according to Ray, it's a 66.6% (2/3) vote).

    I didn't tell him that he thought it was a 100% vote, but he asked how Ray said it worked... And I told him...

    He has indeed 'walked' away on three seperate occasions from me, but usually within a month or so he finds some excuse to 'come back'..

    And, like I said, I'll always be here if he needs me, as will I be for his fiancee...

    Hope that helps..

  • Victor_E

    You bring up a very good question. I would ask the same question as, Is it ecological for the person to be awakened to reality? It depends on many variables, while I was still in as a JW I advised some to stay in because of the great turmoil it would bring. However some were so ready to be awakened that all it took was a little prodding. One of my clients a little old lady who was a dub for twenty five years read one of Rays books I loaned her and in one weekend packed up all her JW literature put it in boxes with a letter she wrote to the local elders telling them she wanted no part of the JWs and wanted they to leave her alone.

  • pettygrudger

    IMHO - i think circumstance will dictate whether you should attempt to intervene. My mother has been in the truth for 33 years, and she's in the 1st stages of Alzheimers. Would telling her, arguing w/her help her? No - so out of love for her I shall stay quiet and respect her & her faith (even though she shuns me). I know no JW's anymore, as I left quite some time ago. Would I try to save them if I could? Probably not - they can't be saved unless they want to be. The human brain can justify anything, so if they choose to believe, they will.

  • Amazing

    Hi Sirona: It all depends. In principle, helping people to get out from under a cult environment is a good thing to do. The JWs are not an extremist cult, so the dangers are not as urgent. Notwithstanding, the state of mind of a person may dictate what level of help, if any, we try to offer.

    I moved to an area where I am not known. So when a JW comes to my door, I don't jump out and tell them of my 27 years of JW experience, or having been an Elder, and how they need to leave a bad religion. Instead, I ask questions that I know will stimulate those searching, and if they are wanting more, they will come back.

    On the other hand, when I was leaving the religion, I faced getting my family out. And, while respecting their individuality, I made damn sure they knew the 'truth' about the religion in a way that they could make an informed choice. They all left with me, including my son-in-law (former Bethelite) and a good friend (former Presiding Overseer.)

    There are two sayings that guide my actions, "You can lead a cow to water, but you can't make her drink." So, no matter how much we may try to feed JWs information, they will not begin to drink until they are ready.

    "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." I learned this saying from Jim Penton, who wrote the book Apocalpyse Delayed. So, even if we get a JW to listen to us, until their own heart is ready to reevaluate their beliefs system, they will still hold the same opinion, no matter how much information we jamb down thier throat.

    I suppose the real trick is to know when to hold'em and when to fold'em. I think this goes back to gently planting seeds of information in a kind and inconspicuous way. When a JW is ready, they will respond, and will seek out more, and will get bolder about doing so.

    I appreciated what one former Circuit Overseer told me. He said, JWs are like unhatched chickens. If you crack the egg before they are ready to hatch, you will kill them. Rather, try to keep the egg warm with care and love, and some information as they wish, and in time they will hatch on their own."

    I used to raise chickens as a hobby, and relate to this. So, I take each case as it is and try to tailor make how I deal with the JW. The only exception is Fred Hall on this forum. I believe that Fred is already an ex-JW, but loves to heckles us by pretenbding he still believes the Watch Tower religion. Freddie has become an icon of affection for everyone.

    {b]Damaging results?: More to your point about the impact on giving information to JWs that might lead them out of the religion, and the resulting damage to them. I liken it in someways to this: Would I help a hooker or drug user get away from a pimp or or dealer? What is the pimp threatened harm if the hooker tried to leave?

    The Watch Tower Society is a Spiritual Pimp of the worst kind. Why? Because they are not so extreme as to present any immediate dangers as would a 'David Koresh' type of cult leader. Yet, they are very dangerous to their members in the long term. Wasted lives, high risk for needless persecution, death from lack of blood in an emergency, placing the organization's reputation ahead of the need to expose child molesters in their midst, and most common of all, a twisted view of reality and the world around them. So, the JWs pay homage to their Spiritual Pimp, by giving time and money to keep the pimp living on a "high" of power and presteige.

    So yes, I think it is loving to help them out, even when there is risk of some harm. But, while I will try to gently help the JW to get out of the religion, I will not push[/b] them out. I think that is the balance. Anyway, hope these points are helpful. - Amazing

  • chester

    I think Amazing has said it all but I would like to add my two cents.

    I really feel sorry for the young kids who are being brought up to believe that the Governing Body speaks for God. The kids who are being taught that this religion is the only channel to God and that if a person is not a baptised Jehovah's Witness they will be destroyed.

    I personally think that is the saddest part of all. Their lives are destroyed before they even get started by believing that stuff.
    Here is some information that has been circulating among JW's.
    Bro. xxxx (elder and ex-Bethelite in my congregation) made some
    interesting remarks after the scheduled meetings. He's received several emails regarding the annual meeting.

    The following thoughts were expressed:

    The gap between the world and us is becoming ever clearer. We need to make sure that we're developing the qualities and faith now, so that we can remain steadfast and unmovable. Our neutrality will be tested like never before.

    We need to make sure our children understand neutrality. If they don't, we need to teach them and realize what tests they are facing in school and will face in the future.

    The world scene is changing and changes can come literally overnight.

    Then he relayed the following experience of a Christian family in New York:
    A family of four went out to dinner last week. As they were eating, a
    gentlemen began to sing a patriotic song, then the whole restaurant began to sing, then the whole restaurant stood up. The witness family remain seated and didn't stand. The restaurant patrons and restaurant workers begin to ridicule the family and verbally abuse the family. They were verbally abused so much that they had to leave and didn't finish their dinner. We're thankful that this family remained faithful.

    Things can literally change in an instance and we need to make sure that we have the firm resolve to serve Jehovah, no matter what.

    Children are being taught these things and all the while the WT is/was in bed with the UN.

    What Hypocrites they are!!!!


  • bboyneko
    Hi Sirona: It all depends. In principle, helping people to get out from under a cult environment is a good thing to do. The JWs are not an extremist cult, so the dangers are not as urgent.

    I beg to differ? Anyone remember this:
    "In former times thousands of youths died for putting God first. They are still doing it, only today the drama is played out in hospitals and courtrooms, with blood transfusions the issue."
    Awake! - May 22, 1994, p.2

    Try telling those kids that died that this is not that dangerous of a cult. PEOPLE DIE. Many people die. It is VERY loving to get them out of the cult. Is it loving to get a someone out of an abusive relationship where they get beaten and mentally abused? Of course! to say that well if they leave then they wont have a nice warm house is ridiculous. Freedom is our most valuable posession as a human being. TO have that taken away dehumanizes us.

  • Simon

    Hi Sirona_Celtic

    It's a very good question and difficult to answer. I guess it depends on people's circumstances:

    A year or so ago I chatted on ICQ to a sister from Australia and while I was initially keen to tell her 'the truth' about the WTS I held back when she started telling me more about her life-story, her kids (some very seriously ill) and how the local congregation were giving her a lot of help.

    For most people though, I think the best analogy is "The Trueman Show" - was he better knowing about the real world or staying in his little coccoon of deceit ?

    The more people that leave, the easier it becomes for others to leave and the more support they get when they do. Eventually, the WTS will be forced to change how they treat people who have left.

    Prom a personal point of view, I know I and my wife are much, much happier now than we ever were when we were in even though the process of leaving has been difficult.

  • ISP

    Hi Sirona, its not quite a matter of getting folks 'out'....its more like helping those who need it. I have known 2 guys commit suicide Thats too high a percentage for me.


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