Discovery Channel: Est. 6.5 Million in Catacombs- Wouldn't the annointed...

by Lady Liberty 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Lady Liberty

  Hello all and Happy Tuesday!

  In light of the recent discussion on the 144,000, I thought I would mention a program recently aired on the Discovery Channel. It was about the Catacombs in under Rome. It is estimated 6.5 million were laid to rest there. And that does not mention all the other cities were there are Catacombs under them. So this brings me to my question:

  How in the world can you ignore the fact that with so many dead from Jesus day until 1935, would it really be reasonable to believe that there wasn't at least 144,000 faithful Christians that died prior to 1935?? The only reasonable and honest answer is "YES".

  It blows me away how most JWs don't and won't even look at that as a possiblity. My husband tried reasoning this to my brother in law who by the way is a young elder..his responce? "I don't believe you!" He didn't believe that there even are Catacombs in Rome or anywhere else. Talk about ignorant!!!

  Here is a great sight if any of you are interested: http://www.catacombe.roma.it/

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty
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  sir82

  Ah, but you see the "man of lawlessness" began to operate even before the last apostle died...clearly 99.9% of those 6.5 million Christians were "apostate"!

  Don't you read your Watchtower? Sheesh!
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  Ancientofdays

  Hi LL, that's a very good point. I have tried many time to make light on the illogical assumption that only (less than) 144.000 true cristian were found until 1935, with my wife. But I've never been able to find out a specific christian growth statistic and number from 33 AC till 150 AC. I would think not later than 150 AC will be acceptable for JW , because as you know they consider apostasy age from just after John died until Russel time. Is somebody aware of cristian estimation growth in that period ?
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  M.J.

  AoD

  there was a recent thread on that subject. Basically, nobody knows for sure. But some food for thought may be that if the JWs are really just a model of the 1st century church, and the 1st century church was all about witnessing door-to-door, then what's the deal with them gaining less than 100,000 converts from 33AD-100AD, a whole 70 year "generation"...especially when, from the very beginning according to Acts 21:20, myriads (tens of thousands) of JEWS were already Christian. How many more gentile churches did Paul bring in? Compare with the 5 million-odd converts by JWs in the same amount of time, from 1919 to the mid 80s. Granted, the situation in modern times is much more conducive to higher numbers, but even so, if JWs today are built on the 1st century model you would expect at least an analagous growth pattern in the 1st century.

  Another thing to ask is whether or not Charles Russell was a true Christian? Even though he didn't have the complete "truth"? So likewise, why would not having the complete "truth", as understood by JWs today disqualify hundreds of thousands of early Christians? Is it because they had the truth to begin with and rejected it, while Russell was ignorant? Do you honestly think that an early Christian (likely illiterate and without a complete Bible), would forfeit eternal life by intentionally wanting to believe in "pagan" doctrines? Or was it more likely that some would have been "decieved" by human leaders at the time? Especially when it was apparent that many thousands of Christians were sincere enough toward God to become martyrs in the 2nd and 3rd centuries?

  Remember that we owe the compilation of our Bible to early church fathers such as Ireneaus and in the 2nd & 3rd centuries CE, who must have been guided by God's spirit at that time. And don't forget the Arian controversy still happening in the fourth century must have meant that people weren't all single-minded even at that late time period.

  Well there ya go, I just rambled some stuff off the top of my head that may or may not be helpful.
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  Pahpa

  The book of Revelation is highly symbolic. But the Watchtower picks and chooses what is "literal" and what is "symbolic." Bible scholars have pointed out the possibilities of these symbolisms by noting what other Bible books say...particularly those that involve prophecies of the past. But they generally avoid being dogmatic.

  The Watchtower, on the other hand, arbitrarily selects interpretations that conveniently fit their views. In doing so, it runs into the difficulties with its own theology. The idea of a limited number (144,000) gives support to its own importance of having the "remnant" of that number in the leadership of their own organization. But most scholars understand the number to be only symbolic, perhaps, representing the whole of "spiritual Israel." There seems to be no definitive answer. But that seems to be the most reasonable!
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  Spirit Axal

  From what I understood "myself and not a group" the 144,000 was only appointed to the twelve tribes of israel, jacob fathered 12 sons and each of them was givin a territory, thus each tribe had 12,000 in it and it was for Jews not jehovahs witnesses. and no, im not a jew im a hick from wv :P
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  Marcel

  i read a bit about the catacombs and for me it seemed like almost none of the dead in the catacombs *can* be true christians (in jw belief).
  
  i read somewhere (i forgot where :() that the most ppl in there are from the ~ 3rd century...
  and the first christians were using normal graves instead.
  if you browse the websites about the catacombs you encounter pictures and stories about thousands of monks, popes, nuns, etc which are buried there. and i guess in jw belief no monk could have been a true christian.
  
  additionally the catacombs were not used by christains only. around 50% were jews...
  i guess in jw belief all or nearly all of the bones there orignate from apostates or jews.